Game The Most Disliked Wedding Episode/Movie

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Sakonna, Aug 4, 2022.

  1. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Admiral

    Sep 7, 2020
    Yup. Getting back to the subject at hand (we have an active topic [1200+ posts and counting] about how thoroughly Harry got his lunch handed to him), when DS9 had a wedding, they devoted a whole episode to it. Voyager... didn't even have the couple saying "I do."

    Was it "DS9 got the good writers and VOY got the leftovers"? Or "Berman ignored DS9 and therefore wasn't able to ruin it"? I've heard both theories.
  2. Brennyren

    Brennyren Commodore Commodore

    Mar 20, 2003
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Beats me, @Oddish . I suffered a permanent case of lowered expectations around the time of "Basics II," when I realized they didn't really intend any long-term character development for m'man Chakotay either.
  3. Holly-deck One

    Holly-deck One Vice Admiral Admiral

    Mar 2, 2017
    Farscape One
    I don't know if I'd go as far as to say VOYAGER had bad writers, just the quality was not as high as DS9's. The writers on VOYAGER suited their premise more than if they were on DS9. (The ones coming from TNG: Moore and Echevarria were more character focused, while Braga was more high concept.) VOYAGER definitely had far more interference from UPN and the suits. I've always felt that was the bigger reason why DS9 got to do so much more with their characters while VGR used the reset button so often.

    Clearly VGR can make character work and growth happen... The Doctor and Seven are prime examples. Tom and B'Elanna grew, too. But the level of growth and amount of characters who got it... vastly different between DS9 and VGR.

    I lean more heavily on UPN and suits interfering. DS9 never got a year on its own, but in the end it was probably for the best. Behr was able to win far more fights than Braga, and it's likely due to VGR being the flagship of the network at the time.
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  4. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five It is... It is green. Premium Member

    May 1, 2001
    Staffordshire, UK
    I wonder if Michael Piller thought that, upon the end of TNG, he felt that the writing styles of Moore and Echevarria matched up with DS9's storytelling?

    I'm sure I read somewhere (DS9 Companion?) that Rene Echevarria originally wanted to be a part of a new show, and join the crew of VOY. Someone decided he would join Ira Steven Behr instead, though it all worked out well in the end for DS9.
  5. Holly-deck One

    Holly-deck One Vice Admiral Admiral

    Mar 2, 2017
    Farscape One
    I'm sure Piller was at least pondering that. He had a knack for getting good writers placed where they were needed most.
  6. Richard S. Ta

    Richard S. Ta Commodore Commodore

    Mar 10, 2021
    Voyager writers were hampered at every turn by the requirements and demands of people higher on the chain than Berman.
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  7. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five It is... It is green. Premium Member

    May 1, 2001
    Staffordshire, UK
    Very true.

    My favourite game is imagining a VOY series that went to syndication, like TNG and DS9.
  8. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Admiral

    Sep 7, 2020
    Have you ever tried swapping out characters and thinking about what happens to them if they were on the other show?

    Nog on VOY is cleaning tables, swiping valuables, doing brig time, and dropping little creatures on people that turn them different colors in Year 1. By Year 7, he may have outgrown the latter prank, but he's still cleaning tables, stealing stuff, and getting arrested.
  9. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five It is... It is green. Premium Member

    May 1, 2001
    Staffordshire, UK
    Yeah, and then we could have had Harry on DS9, getting his leg blown off during battle, going through PTSD, and making me want to cry every time I watch It's Only a Paper Moon.

    Unrelated point - on my current franchise rewatch, it'll be the first time I've watched DS9 since Aron Eisenberg, Barry Jenner, and Rene Auberjonois. :(

    Though having said that I was only a few days shy of Nichelle Nicholls's death when I finished TOS and TAS. :(

    I guess the sadness in people dying who we've loved watching and rewatching countlessly over the years, just means they did such a great job to make us want to watch in the first place.
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
  10. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Admiral

    Sep 7, 2020
    Not to mention that he's had several romances, gotten married, had a kid, adopted a cat, reached the rank of ○○ lieutenant, occasionally joins Bashir and Miles in the holodeck, and is periodically accompanying Vic Fontaine on his sax.
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  11. Sakonna

    Sakonna Commodore Commodore

    Dec 15, 2015
    To chime in on a few of these topics...

    -- I have been surprised by how hit I have been by the passing of Nichelle Nichols. She was a true inspiration, and my favorite TOS character. I always thought I was out-of-sync to so passionately love Uhura, but the outpouring in response to her death really shows I was not alone in that.
    And I suppose it's also quite telling that the Kelvin movies elevate Uhura to the top tier, and Uhura is the first main TOS castmember that SNW elected to resurrect. I guess everyone else shared my craving for Uhura to get more to do in every episode.
    RIP Nichelle.

    -- Count me on the team that prefers Harry not being revealed as an alien in "Favorite Son." If it had happened, with those writers the most likely path is that it would never have been mentioned again. It would just be another of the Voyager continuity fails.

    -- It's interesting to me how close "Home" came to winning, as that would have made it one of the rare double winners. I think most of the multiple winners represent the worst of the worst, but I've always been fine with "Home." It's not brilliant or anything, but it's fine. And after screwing up the climax of the Xindi arc so badly by feeding straight into alien Nazi nonsense, they needed something like "Home" to not fully retroactively destroy season 3.
  12. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Admiral

    Sep 7, 2020
    Let's face it, he was an epic fail as a character as a human. Making him an alien could scarcely have made it worse.
  13. Sakonna

    Sakonna Commodore Commodore

    Dec 15, 2015
    Interesting that this is the first winner from early TNG. As reviled as season 1 & 2 TNG once were, I think nostalgia for them has really taken over. It certainly has with me -- those are two of my favorite seasons of Trek ever.

    The 2020 winner of this game was "Favorite Son."

    Next up: "The Most Disliked Episode Directed By Levar Burton"

    WRITER GENE RODDENBERRY: TOS, Season 1: "Mudd's Women"
    MAJEL BARRETT APPEARANCE: TOS, Season 3: "And The Children Shall Lead"
    3RD SEASON: TOS, Season 3: "And The Children Shall Lead"
    'HEY, THIS PLANET IS JUST LIKE EARTH!': TOS, Season 3: "Plato's Stepchildren"
    ROMULAN: TAS, Season 2: "The Practical Joker"
    WEDDING: TNG, Season 2: "The Outrageous Okona"
    DIRECTOR WINRICH KOLBE: TNG, Season 5: "The Masterpiece Society"
    5TH SEASON: TNG, Season 5: "The Perfect Mate"
    ROMANCE-OF-THE-WEEK: TNG, Season 6: "Aquiel"
    KLINGON: TNG, Season 6: "Birthright, Part II"
    DIRECTOR CLIFF BOLE: TNG, Season 7: "Liaisons"
    DIRECTOR LES LANDAU: TNG, Season 7: "Dark Page"
    WRITER RONALD D. MOORE: TNG, Season 7: "Journey's End"
    7TH SEASON: TNG, Season 7: "Firstborn"
    HOLIDAY: DS9, Season 3: "Meridian"
    CARDASSIAN: DS9, Season 6: "Sons & Daughters"
    MIRROR UNIVERSE: DS9, Season 6: "Resurrection"
    FERENGI: DS9, Season 6: "Profit And Lace"
    COMEDIC/LIGHT-HEARTED: DS9, Season 6: "Profit And Lace"
    6TH SEASON: DS9, Season 6: "Profit And Lace"
    JEFFREY COMBS APPEARANCE: DS9, Season 7: "The Emperor's New Cloak"
    WRITER JOE MENOSKY: VOY, Season 5: "The Fight"
    HOLODECK: VOY, Season 6: "Spirit Folk"
    MAQUIS: VOY, Season 7: "Repression"
    BARCLAY: VOY, Season 7: "Inside Man"
    2-PART/DOUBLE EPISODE: VOY, Season 7: "Flesh And Blood"
    RECYCLED TITLE: ENT, Season 1: "Terra Nova"
    VAUGHN ARMSTRONG APPEARANCE: ENT, Season 2: "Shockwave, Part II"
    2ND SEASON: ENT, Season 2: "Shockwave, Part II"
    DIRECTOR MIKE VEJAR: ENT, Season 3: "Rajiin"
    DIRECTOR DAVID LIVINGSTON: ENT, Season 3: "Harbinger"
    SEASON PREMIERE: ENT, Season 4: "Storm Front, Part I"
    EVERY 47TH RELEASE: ENT, Season 4: "Storm Front, Part I"
    VISIT TO EARTH'S PAST: ENT, Season 4: "Storm Front, Part II"
    HOLLYWOOD REPORTER'S 100 BEST EPS: ENT, Season 4: "Home"
    DIRECTOR ALLAN KROEKER: ENT, Season 4: "These Are The Voyages..."
    TIME TRAVEL/TRAVELER/LOOP/ANOMALY: DIS, Season 2: "Perpetual Infinity"
    FEMALE DIRECTOR: DIS, Season 2: "Perpetual Infinity"
    DIRECTOR JONATHAN FRAKES: DIS, Season 3: "There Is A Tide..."
    47TH EPISODES: DIS, Season 4: "The Examples"
    4TH SEASON: DIS, Season 4: "The Galactic Barrier"
    4TH & 7TH EPISODES: ST, Season 2: "Ask Not"
    TREK NOIR: PIC, "Broken Pieces"
    CAST CROSSOVER: PIC, "Et In Arcardia Ego, Part 1"
    GUINAN: PIC, "Monsters"
    BORG/XB: PIC, "Mercy"
    Q: PIC, "Mercy"
    COUPLE: LD, Carol Freeman/Admiral Husband

    DS9, Season 6: "Profit And Lace"

    TOS, Season 3: "And The Children Shall Lead"
    ENT, Season 2: "Shockwave, Part II"
    ENT, Season 4: "Storm Front, Part I"
    DIS, Season 2: "Perpetual Infinity"
    PIC, Season 2: "Mercy"

    SNW & Movies: 0 wins
    TAS, ST, LD & PRO: 1 win each
    TOS: 4 wins
    VOY & PIC: 5 wins each
    DIS: 6 wins
    DS9: 7 wins
    TNG: 9 wins
    ENT: 10 wins
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