Game The Most Disliked Trek Noir

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Sakonna, May 24, 2020.

  1. Sakonna

    Sakonna Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    Next up in these themed elimination games: TREK NOIR! (A note on list parameters in the post below)

    THE RULES. The basic idea is your standard elimination game. Below are a list of noir-ish Trek episodes. Eliminate your FAVORITE or the one you deem the 'BEST.' Please provide an EXPLANATION for why you are eliminating your choice and be sure to copy and paste the list with your choice removed. Leave at least 2 eliminations by other posters before you eliminate another episode.

    No tactical voting! You cannot remove an episode just because you feel it would threaten your preferred episode's chance to win.


    As always, much thanks to @Farscape One for helping me vet the list. This one was a lot of discussion, so hopefully you all like the results. :bolian:
    Enjoy! :bolian::beer::bolian::biggrin::bolian:

    TOS, Season 1: “The Man Trap”
    TOS, Season 1: "What Are Little Girls Made Of?"
    TOS, Season 1: "The Conscience Of The King"
    TOS, Season 3: "The Enterprise Incident"
    TOS, Season 3: "Wink Of An Eye"
    TOS, Season 3: “Turnabout Intruder”
    TAS, Season 1: “The Lorelei Signal”
    TNG, Season 1: “The Big Goodbye”
    TNG, Season 1: “Conspiracy”
    TNG, Season 2: "The Royale"
    TNG, Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG, Season 3: “A Matter Of Perspective”
    TNG, Season 4: “Clues”
    TNG, Season 6: "Man Of The People"
    TNG, Season 6: “Aquiel”
    TNG, Sesaon 6: “Frame Of Mind”
    TNG, Season 6: “Suspicions”
    DS9, Season 1: “In The Hands Of The Prophets”
    DS9, Season 2: “Necessary Evil”
    DS9, Season 2: “Second Sight”
    DS9, Season 2: “Whispers”
    DS9, Season 2: “The Collaborator”
    DS9, Season 3: “Improbable Cause”
    DS9, Season 4: "The Muse"
    DS9, Season 5: “Things Past”
    DS9, Season 5: “The Darkness And The Light”
    DS9, Season 5: “A Simple Investigation”
    DS9, Season 6: “Honor Among Thieves”
    DS9, Season 6: “Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night”
    DS9, Season 6: “Inquisition”
    DS9, Season 7: “Prodigal Daughter”
    DS9, Season 7: “Field Of Fire”
    VOY, Season 1: “Ex Post Facto”
    VOY, Season 1: "State Of Flux"
    VOY, Season 2: “Meld”
    VOY, Season 2: “Investigations”
    VOY, Season 3: “Warlord”
    VOY, Season 3: “Fair Trade”
    VOY, Season 3: “Darkling”
    VOY, Season 4: “The Raven”
    VOY, Season 5: “Counterpoint”
    ENT, Season 3: “Rajiin”
    ENT, Season 3: “Carpenter Street”
    ENT, Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC, Season 1: “Stardust City Rag” [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
    Qonundrum likes this.
  2. Sakonna

    Sakonna Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    LIST PARAMETERS: Since noir as a genre is notoriously difficult to define, this took some time to pull together. Of course there's the obvious ones ("Big Goodbye", "Necessary Evil", "Ex Post Facto", etc), but after that it got tricky. Ultimately I concluded that, since even cinema historians and critics see the boundaries of noir as subjective, I'm probably not going to solve it and come up with iron-clad objectives boundaries for this list. :bolian: So I just kept the key noir tropes in mind (intimate betrayals, femme fatale's, atmospheric mysteries, dark corrupt worlds, sinister sexual plots/motives, investigating characters functioning like loner PI's, etc) and then made case-by-case calls as to whether each episode felt like it belonged. Much thanks to @Farscape One for helping me vet the choices and work through the thinking on them.

    Also, all the Mirror Universe episodes were excluded -- every one of them could fit, but they are also kind of their own thing, and since we have already played MU episodes as their own game, they were left off here, so as to not overwhelm this list.

    And I guess I'll do a first elimination, which will have to be "The Big Goodbye." This episode has always been a magic drug for me! I can't resist it, the atmosphere is positively entrancing, intoxicating. It's just an episode I am always happy to revisit.

    Also, probably my favorite use of Beverly in season 1, one of the few eps that year where I was left with a favorable impression of her character.

    Still hoping to actually see a Jarada on screen!

    TOS, Season 1: “The Man Trap”
    TOS, Season 1: "What Are Little Girls Made Of?"
    TOS, Season 1: "The Conscience Of The King"
    TOS, Season 3: "The Enterprise Incident"
    TOS, Season 3: "Wink Of An Eye"
    TOS, Season 3: “Turnabout Intruder”
    TAS, Season 1: “The Lorelei Signal”
    TNG, Season 1: “Conspiracy”
    TNG, Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG, Season 3: “A Matter Of Perspective”
    TNG, Season 4: “Clues”
    TNG, Season 6: "Man Of The People"
    TNG, Season 6: “Aquiel”
    TNG, Sesaon 6: “Frame Of Mind”
    TNG, Season 6: “Suspicions”
    DS9, Season 1: “In The Hands Of The Prophets”
    DS9, Season 2: “Necessary Evil”
    DS9, Season 2: “Second Sight”
    DS9, Season 2: “Whispers”
    DS9, Season 2: “The Collaborator”
    DS9, Season 3: “Improbable Cause”
    DS9, Season 4: "The Muse"
    DS9, Season 5: “Things Past”
    DS9, Season 5: “The Darkness And The Light”
    DS9, Season 5: “A Simple Investigation”
    DS9, Season 6: “Honor Among Thieves”
    DS9, Season 6: “Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night”
    DS9, Season 6: “Inquisition”
    DS9, Season 7: “Prodigal Daughter”
    DS9, Season 7: “Field Of Fire”
    VOY, Season 1: “Ex Post Facto”
    VOY, Season 1: "State Of Flux"
    VOY, Season 2: “Meld”
    VOY, Season 2: “Investigations”
    VOY, Season 3: “Warlord”
    VOY, Season 3: “Fair Trade”
    VOY, Season 3: “Darkling”
    VOY, Season 4: “The Raven”
    VOY, Season 5: “Counterpoint”
    ENT, Season 3: “Rajiin”
    ENT, Season 3: “Carpenter Street”
    ENT, Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC, Season 1: “Stardust City Rag” [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
  3. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2020
    Location:
    Sheer Fucking Hubris
    I have to save
    DS9, Season 2: “Necessary Evil”.
    A very good episode with only one or two flaws (like Odo's greeting when he first meets Kira... very ooc). The film noir thing works very well for me. We see the beginning of the Odo/ Kira friendship (and of their enmitiy with Gul Dukat), a nice little mystery, and a real test of said friendship. Great acting, particularly with Odo's disappointment in the end. Bonus points for having my two favorite main characters front and center.


    TOS, Season 1: “The Man Trap”
    TOS, Season 1: "What Are Little Girls Made Of?"
    TOS, Season 1: "The Conscience Of The King"
    TOS, Season 3: "The Enterprise Incident"
    TOS, Season 3: "Wink Of An Eye"
    TOS, Season 3: “Turnabout Intruder”
    TAS, Season 1: “The Lorelei Signal”
    TNG, Season 1: “Conspiracy”
    TNG, Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG, Season 3: “A Matter Of Perspective”
    TNG, Season 4: “Clues”
    TNG, Season 6: "Man Of The People"
    TNG, Season 6: “Aquiel”
    TNG, Sesaon 6: “Frame Of Mind”
    TNG, Season 6: “Suspicions”
    DS9, Season 1: “In The Hands Of The Prophets”
    DS9, Season 2: “Second Sight”
    DS9, Season 2: “Whispers”
    DS9, Season 2: “The Collaborator”
    DS9, Season 3: “Improbable Cause”
    DS9, Season 4: "The Muse"
    DS9, Season 5: “Things Past”
    DS9, Season 5: “The Darkness And The Light”
    DS9, Season 5: “A Simple Investigation”
    DS9, Season 6: “Honor Among Thieves”
    DS9, Season 6: “Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night”
    DS9, Season 6: “Inquisition”
    DS9, Season 7: “Prodigal Daughter”
    DS9, Season 7: “Field Of Fire”
    VOY, Season 1: “Ex Post Facto”
    VOY, Season 1: "State Of Flux"
    VOY, Season 2: “Meld”
    VOY, Season 2: “Investigations”
    VOY, Season 3: “Warlord”
    VOY, Season 3: “Fair Trade”
    VOY, Season 3: “Darkling”
    VOY, Season 4: “The Raven”
    VOY, Season 5: “Counterpoint”
    ENT, Season 3: “Rajiin”
    ENT, Season 3: “Carpenter Street”
    ENT, Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC, Season 1: “Stardust City Rag”
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  4. The ABehrration

    The ABehrration Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Bad Thoughts
    I wish I had had the privilege.


    Saving Conscience of the King. Hopefully, this is not an unpopular choice. The episode share a lot with old noir, being somewhat dramatically over the top, while retaining the concern for morality. It's an interesting internal struggle for Kirk between what his duty is in apprehending "the butcher" and his own anger.

    TOS, Season 1: “The Man Trap”
    TOS, Season 1: "What Are Little Girls Made Of?"
    TOS, Season 3: "The Enterprise Incident"
    TOS, Season 3: "Wink Of An Eye"
    TOS, Season 3: “Turnabout Intruder”
    TAS, Season 1: “The Lorelei Signal”
    TNG, Season 1: “Conspiracy”
    TNG, Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG, Season 3: “A Matter Of Perspective”
    TNG, Season 4: “Clues”
    TNG, Season 6: "Man Of The People"
    TNG, Season 6: “Aquiel”
    TNG, Sesaon 6: “Frame Of Mind”
    TNG, Season 6: “Suspicions”
    DS9, Season 1: “In The Hands Of The Prophets”
    DS9, Season 2: “Second Sight”
    DS9, Season 2: “Whispers”
    DS9, Season 2: “The Collaborator”
    DS9, Season 3: “Improbable Cause”
    DS9, Season 4: "The Muse"
    DS9, Season 5: “Things Past”
    DS9, Season 5: “The Darkness And The Light”
    DS9, Season 5: “A Simple Investigation”
    DS9, Season 6: “Honor Among Thieves”
    DS9, Season 6: “Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night”
    DS9, Season 6: “Inquisition”
    DS9, Season 7: “Prodigal Daughter”
    DS9, Season 7: “Field Of Fire”
    VOY, Season 1: “Ex Post Facto”
    VOY, Season 1: "State Of Flux"
    VOY, Season 2: “Meld”
    VOY, Season 2: “Investigations”
    VOY, Season 3: “Warlord”
    VOY, Season 3: “Fair Trade”
    VOY, Season 3: “Darkling”
    VOY, Season 4: “The Raven”
    VOY, Season 5: “Counterpoint”
    ENT, Season 3: “Rajiin”
    ENT, Season 3: “Carpenter Street”
    ENT, Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC, Season 1: “Stardust City Rag”
     
  5. cosmic mouse

    cosmic mouse Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2017
    Location:
    Tube 32
    Once again I have to save...
    VOY, Season 5: “Counterpoint”
    My favorite VOY ep of all time ... for the previous reasons I mentioned in one of the last of these games, but also, yes, there are some quality noir elements: the intricacies of the plot, including some decent gaslighting aspects, psychological twists and turns, and this episode really serves to drive home the thread of the WWII Nazi occupation theme that pervades the entire series.

    TOS, Season 1: “The Man Trap”
    TOS, Season 1: "What Are Little Girls Made Of?"
    TOS, Season 3: "The Enterprise Incident"
    TOS, Season 3: "Wink Of An Eye"
    TOS, Season 3: “Turnabout Intruder”
    TAS, Season 1: “The Lorelei Signal”
    TNG, Season 1: “Conspiracy”
    TNG, Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG, Season 3: “A Matter Of Perspective”
    TNG, Season 4: “Clues”
    TNG, Season 6: "Man Of The People"
    TNG, Season 6: “Aquiel”
    TNG, Sesaon 6: “Frame Of Mind”
    TNG, Season 6: “Suspicions”
    DS9, Season 1: “In The Hands Of The Prophets”
    DS9, Season 2: “Second Sight”
    DS9, Season 2: “Whispers”
    DS9, Season 2: “The Collaborator”
    DS9, Season 3: “Improbable Cause”
    DS9, Season 4: "The Muse"
    DS9, Season 5: “Things Past”
    DS9, Season 5: “The Darkness And The Light”
    DS9, Season 5: “A Simple Investigation”
    DS9, Season 6: “Honor Among Thieves”
    DS9, Season 6: “Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night”
    DS9, Season 6: “Inquisition”
    DS9, Season 7: “Prodigal Daughter”
    DS9, Season 7: “Field Of Fire”
    VOY, Season 1: “Ex Post Facto”
    VOY, Season 1: "State Of Flux"
    VOY, Season 2: “Meld”
    VOY, Season 2: “Investigations”
    VOY, Season 3: “Warlord”
    VOY, Season 3: “Fair Trade”
    VOY, Season 3: “Darkling”
    VOY, Season 4: “The Raven”
    ENT, Season 3: “Rajiin”
    ENT, Season 3: “Carpenter Street”
    ENT, Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC, Season 1: “Stardust City Rag”
     
  6. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Location:
    Enterprise bowling alley
    Saving "The Enterprise Incident" which is a TOS classic. Lots of espionage, over-hammy Shatner, Vulcan death grips, and my avatar.



    TOS, Season 1: “The Man Trap”
    TOS, Season 1: "What Are Little Girls Made Of?"
    TOS, Season 3: "Wink Of An Eye"
    TOS, Season 3: “Turnabout Intruder”
    TAS, Season 1: “The Lorelei Signal”
    TNG, Season 1: “Conspiracy”
    TNG, Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG, Season 3: “A Matter Of Perspective”
    TNG, Season 4: “Clues”
    TNG, Season 6: "Man Of The People"
    TNG, Season 6: “Aquiel”
    TNG, Sesaon 6: “Frame Of Mind”
    TNG, Season 6: “Suspicions”
    DS9, Season 1: “In The Hands Of The Prophets”
    DS9, Season 2: “Second Sight”
    DS9, Season 2: “Whispers”
    DS9, Season 2: “The Collaborator”
    DS9, Season 3: “Improbable Cause”
    DS9, Season 4: "The Muse"
    DS9, Season 5: “Things Past”
    DS9, Season 5: “The Darkness And The Light”
    DS9, Season 5: “A Simple Investigation”
    DS9, Season 6: “Honor Among Thieves”
    DS9, Season 6: “Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night”
    DS9, Season 6: “Inquisition”
    DS9, Season 7: “Prodigal Daughter”
    DS9, Season 7: “Field Of Fire”
    VOY, Season 1: “Ex Post Facto”
    VOY, Season 1: "State Of Flux"
    VOY, Season 2: “Meld”
    VOY, Season 2: “Investigations”
    VOY, Season 3: “Warlord”
    VOY, Season 3: “Fair Trade”
    VOY, Season 3: “Darkling”
    VOY, Season 4: “The Raven”
    ENT, Season 3: “Rajiin”
    ENT, Season 3: “Carpenter Street”
    ENT, Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC, Season 1: “Stardust City Rag”
     
  7. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    For my first save I'll chose
    VOY, Season 3: “Warlord”

    Pretty much the best Kes episode and one of the Voyager episodes I'd call genuinely good. Kes' standoff with Tieran is phenomenal and, along with what we saw of Kes under Tieran's control showed how much potential both the character and the actress had.


    TOS, Season 1: “The Man Trap”
    TOS, Season 1: "What Are Little Girls Made Of?"
    TOS, Season 3: "Wink Of An Eye"
    TOS, Season 3: “Turnabout Intruder”
    TAS, Season 1: “The Lorelei Signal”
    TNG, Season 1: “Conspiracy”
    TNG, Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG, Season 3: “A Matter Of Perspective”
    TNG, Season 4: “Clues”
    TNG, Season 6: "Man Of The People"
    TNG, Season 6: “Aquiel”
    TNG, Sesaon 6: “Frame Of Mind”
    TNG, Season 6: “Suspicions”
    DS9, Season 1: “In The Hands Of The Prophets”
    DS9, Season 2: “Second Sight”
    DS9, Season 2: “Whispers”
    DS9, Season 2: “The Collaborator”
    DS9, Season 3: “Improbable Cause”
    DS9, Season 4: "The Muse"
    DS9, Season 5: “Things Past”
    DS9, Season 5: “The Darkness And The Light”
    DS9, Season 5: “A Simple Investigation”
    DS9, Season 6: “Honor Among Thieves”
    DS9, Season 6: “Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night”
    DS9, Season 6: “Inquisition”
    DS9, Season 7: “Prodigal Daughter”
    DS9, Season 7: “Field Of Fire”
    VOY, Season 1: “Ex Post Facto”
    VOY, Season 1: "State Of Flux"
    VOY, Season 2: “Meld”
    VOY, Season 2: “Investigations”
    VOY, Season 3: “Fair Trade”
    VOY, Season 3: “Darkling”
    VOY, Season 4: “The Raven”
    ENT, Season 3: “Rajiin”
    ENT, Season 3: “Carpenter Street”
    ENT, Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC, Season 1: “Stardust City Rag”
     
  8. Boo-rennyren

    Boo-rennyren Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Saving "State of Flux," a cracking good mystery that managed to leave its central question up in the air for much of the episode and still make its conclusion seem inevitable. Tuvok and Chakotay are savvy detectives, and perfect foils to one another. Robert Beltran lets us see Chakotay's stubborn integrity even in the face of a personal conflict, and his chemistry with Martha Hackett just crackles. Also, this episode contains possibly my favorite line in all of Voyager, and certainly one of Chakotay's best.

    Chakotay: (to Tuvok) You were working for her [Janeway]. She was working for them [the Cardassians]. Was anybody on that ship working for me?

    (Side note: my husband once wrote a fanfic in which, after Voyager returned to the Alpha Quadrant, Chakotay was revealed to be a deep-cover operative for Starfleet. As he cracked to a stunned Janeway, "Even I wasn't working for me.")

    TOS, Season 1: “The Man Trap”
    TOS, Season 1: "What Are Little Girls Made Of?"
    TOS, Season 3: "Wink Of An Eye"
    TOS, Season 3: “Turnabout Intruder”
    TAS, Season 1: “The Lorelei Signal”
    TNG, Season 1: “Conspiracy”
    TNG, Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG, Season 3: “A Matter Of Perspective”
    TNG, Season 4: “Clues”
    TNG, Season 6: "Man Of The People"
    TNG, Season 6: “Aquiel”
    TNG, Sesaon 6: “Frame Of Mind”
    TNG, Season 6: “Suspicions”
    DS9, Season 1: “In The Hands Of The Prophets”
    DS9, Season 2: “Second Sight”
    DS9, Season 2: “Whispers”
    DS9, Season 2: “The Collaborator”
    DS9, Season 3: “Improbable Cause”
    DS9, Season 4: "The Muse"
    DS9, Season 5: “Things Past”
    DS9, Season 5: “The Darkness And The Light”
    DS9, Season 5: “A Simple Investigation”
    DS9, Season 6: “Honor Among Thieves”
    DS9, Season 6: “Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night”
    DS9, Season 6: “Inquisition”
    DS9, Season 7: “Prodigal Daughter”
    DS9, Season 7: “Field Of Fire”
    VOY, Season 1: “Ex Post Facto”
    VOY, Season 2: “Meld”
    VOY, Season 2: “Investigations”
    VOY, Season 3: “Fair Trade”
    VOY, Season 3: “Darkling”
    VOY, Season 4: “The Raven”
    ENT, Season 3: “Rajiin”
    ENT, Season 3: “Carpenter Street”
    ENT, Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC, Season 1: “Stardust City Rag” [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
  9. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Location:
    Enterprise bowling alley
    Saving "What Are Little Girls Made Of?". This was one of the earliest memories of watching Trek that I have. I will always have the image of the high-speed spin that naked Kirk takes creating the duplicate burned into my brain. And the creepy "Androids don't eat, Ms. Chapel" line is gold. Also, Ruk calling humanity "The inferior ones" is also awesome.

    TOS, Season 1: “The Man Trap”
    TOS, Season 3: "Wink Of An Eye"
    TOS, Season 3: “Turnabout Intruder”
    TAS, Season 1: “The Lorelei Signal”
    TNG, Season 1: “Conspiracy”
    TNG, Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG, Season 3: “A Matter Of Perspective”
    TNG, Season 4: “Clues”
    TNG, Season 6: "Man Of The People"
    TNG, Season 6: “Aquiel”
    TNG, Sesaon 6: “Frame Of Mind”
    TNG, Season 6: “Suspicions”
    DS9, Season 1: “In The Hands Of The Prophets”
    DS9, Season 2: “Second Sight”
    DS9, Season 2: “Whispers”
    DS9, Season 2: “The Collaborator”
    DS9, Season 3: “Improbable Cause”
    DS9, Season 4: "The Muse"
    DS9, Season 5: “Things Past”
    DS9, Season 5: “The Darkness And The Light”
    DS9, Season 5: “A Simple Investigation”
    DS9, Season 6: “Honor Among Thieves”
    DS9, Season 6: “Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night”
    DS9, Season 6: “Inquisition”
    DS9, Season 7: “Prodigal Daughter”
    DS9, Season 7: “Field Of Fire”
    VOY, Season 1: “Ex Post Facto”
    VOY, Season 2: “Meld”
    VOY, Season 2: “Investigations”
    VOY, Season 3: “Fair Trade”
    VOY, Season 3: “Darkling”
    VOY, Season 4: “The Raven”
    ENT, Season 3: “Rajiin”
    ENT, Season 3: “Carpenter Street”
    ENT, Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC, Season 1: “Stardust City Rag” [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
  10. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    This was a tricky list to narrow down, but it was a lot of fun figuring out.

    With the choices left, my first save here is "WHISPERS".

    Very shocking the first time you watch it, and even on repeated viewing the episode STILL manages to feel pretty fresh. A truly underrated episode of the franchise.


    TOS, Season 1: “The Man Trap”
    TOS, Season 3: "Wink Of An Eye"
    TOS, Season 3: “Turnabout Intruder”
    TAS, Season 1: “The Lorelei Signal”
    TNG, Season 1: “Conspiracy”
    TNG, Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG, Season 3: “A Matter Of Perspective”
    TNG, Season 4: “Clues”
    TNG, Season 6: "Man Of The People"
    TNG, Season 6: “Aquiel”
    TNG, Sesaon 6: “Frame Of Mind”
    TNG, Season 6: “Suspicions”
    DS9, Season 1: “In The Hands Of The Prophets”
    DS9, Season 2: “Second Sight”
    DS9, Season 2: “The Collaborator”
    DS9, Season 3: “Improbable Cause”
    DS9, Season 4: "The Muse"
    DS9, Season 5: “Things Past”
    DS9, Season 5: “The Darkness And The Light”
    DS9, Season 5: “A Simple Investigation”
    DS9, Season 6: “Honor Among Thieves”
    DS9, Season 6: “Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night”
    DS9, Season 6: “Inquisition”
    DS9, Season 7: “Prodigal Daughter”
    DS9, Season 7: “Field Of Fire”
    VOY, Season 1: “Ex Post Facto”
    VOY, Season 2: “Meld”
    VOY, Season 2: “Investigations”
    VOY, Season 3: “Fair Trade”
    VOY, Season 3: “Darkling”
    VOY, Season 4: “The Raven”
    ENT, Season 3: “Rajiin”
    ENT, Season 3: “Carpenter Street”
    ENT, Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC, Season 1: “Stardust City Rag” [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
  11. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    I'm just gonna save
    DS9, Season 6: “Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night”
    and admit that I like the episode.

    Yes, it's a bit clumsy. But I really like episodes that let us see how conditions were like during the Cardassian occupation of Bajor. And well, it's uncomfortable and quite disgusting....but it's supposed to be those things and went into the horrors of the situation as much as 90s primetime television would allow them. And it addresses some worthwhile topics in regards to Kira's mother's actions and compliance with Dukat.
    And as always it's a good piece for Kira and Dukat. I also really liked Maru and thought they fleshed her out pretty well for a one-off character.

    It's just a shame that we never learned more about Kira's brothers.

    TOS, Season 1: “The Man Trap”
    TOS, Season 3: "Wink Of An Eye"
    TOS, Season 3: “Turnabout Intruder”
    TAS, Season 1: “The Lorelei Signal”
    TNG, Season 1: “Conspiracy”
    TNG, Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG, Season 3: “A Matter Of Perspective”
    TNG, Season 4: “Clues”
    TNG, Season 6: "Man Of The People"
    TNG, Season 6: “Aquiel”
    TNG, Sesaon 6: “Frame Of Mind”
    TNG, Season 6: “Suspicions”
    DS9, Season 1: “In The Hands Of The Prophets”
    DS9, Season 2: “Second Sight”
    DS9, Season 2: “The Collaborator”
    DS9, Season 3: “Improbable Cause”
    DS9, Season 6: “Inquisition”
    DS9, Season 7: “Prodigal Daughter”
    DS9, Season 7: “Field Of Fire”
    VOY, Season 1: “Ex Post Facto”
    VOY, Season 2: “Meld”
    VOY, Season 2: “Investigations”
    VOY, Season 3: “Fair Trade”
    VOY, Season 3: “Darkling”
    VOY, Season 4: “The Raven”
    ENT, Season 3: “Rajiin”
    ENT, Season 3: “Carpenter Street”
    ENT, Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC, Season 1: “Stardust City Rag” [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
    DS9, Season 4: "The Muse"
    DS9, Season 5: “Things Past”
    DS9, Season 5: “The Darkness And The Light”
    DS9, Season 5: “A Simple Investigation”
    DS9, Season 6: “Honor Among Thieves”
     
  12. Sakonna

    Sakonna Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    I rewatched some TOS for this list, and I couldn't believe how much I liked "The Man Trap"! Great, ominous atmosphere. The character intros work much better for a premiere episode than I had previously realized. As with most TOS these days, I also got to enjoy a gorgeous remaster. Thumbs up to this one.

    TOS, Season 3: "Wink Of An Eye"
    TOS, Season 3: “Turnabout Intruder”
    TAS, Season 1: “The Lorelei Signal”
    TNG, Season 1: “Conspiracy”
    TNG, Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG, Season 3: “A Matter Of Perspective”
    TNG, Season 4: “Clues”
    TNG, Season 6: "Man Of The People"
    TNG, Season 6: “Aquiel”
    TNG, Sesaon 6: “Frame Of Mind”
    TNG, Season 6: “Suspicions”
    DS9, Season 1: “In The Hands Of The Prophets”
    DS9, Season 2: “Second Sight”
    DS9, Season 2: “The Collaborator”
    DS9, Season 3: “Improbable Cause”
    DS9, Season 4: "The Muse"
    DS9, Season 5: “Things Past”
    DS9, Season 5: “The Darkness And The Light”
    DS9, Season 5: “A Simple Investigation”
    DS9, Season 6: “Honor Among Thieves”
    DS9, Season 6: “Inquisition”
    DS9, Season 7: “Prodigal Daughter”
    DS9, Season 7: “Field Of Fire”
    VOY, Season 1: “Ex Post Facto”
    VOY, Season 2: “Meld”
    VOY, Season 2: “Investigations”
    VOY, Season 3: “Fair Trade”
    VOY, Season 3: “Darkling”
    VOY, Season 4: “The Raven”
    ENT, Season 3: “Rajiin”
    ENT, Season 3: “Carpenter Street”
    ENT, Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC, Season 1: “Stardust City Rag” [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
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  13. Boo-rennyren

    Boo-rennyren Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    "Frame of Mind" was a well-staged mindscrew, with a nicely desperate performance by Frakes. I wasn't sure what was going on until the very end.

    TOS, Season 3: "Wink Of An Eye"
    TOS, Season 3: “Turnabout Intruder”
    TAS, Season 1: “The Lorelei Signal”
    TNG, Season 1: “Conspiracy”
    TNG, Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG, Season 3: “A Matter Of Perspective”
    TNG, Season 4: “Clues”
    TNG, Season 6: "Man Of The People"
    TNG, Season 6: “Aquiel”
    TNG, Season 6: “Suspicions”
    DS9, Season 1: “In The Hands Of The Prophets”
    DS9, Season 2: “Second Sight”
    DS9, Season 2: “The Collaborator”
    DS9, Season 3: “Improbable Cause”
    DS9, Season 4: "The Muse"
    DS9, Season 5: “Things Past”
    DS9, Season 5: “The Darkness And The Light”
    DS9, Season 5: “A Simple Investigation”
    DS9, Season 6: “Honor Among Thieves”
    DS9, Season 6: “Inquisition”
    DS9, Season 7: “Prodigal Daughter”
    DS9, Season 7: “Field Of Fire”
    VOY, Season 1: “Ex Post Facto”
    VOY, Season 2: “Meld”
    VOY, Season 2: “Investigations”
    VOY, Season 3: “Fair Trade”
    VOY, Season 3: “Darkling”
    VOY, Season 4: “The Raven”
    ENT, Season 3: “Rajiin”
    ENT, Season 3: “Carpenter Street”
    ENT, Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC, Season 1: “Stardust City Rag” [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
  14. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Saving "MELD". Always loved this episode. Excellent performances all around, and perfect casting of Brad Dourif. Great discussions about the nature of violence.

    TOS, Season 3: "Wink Of An Eye"
    TOS, Season 3: “Turnabout Intruder”
    TAS, Season 1: “The Lorelei Signal”
    TNG, Season 1: “Conspiracy”
    TNG, Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG, Season 3: “A Matter Of Perspective”
    TNG, Season 4: “Clues”
    TNG, Season 6: "Man Of The People"
    TNG, Season 6: “Aquiel”
    TNG, Season 6: “Suspicions”
    DS9, Season 1: “In The Hands Of The Prophets”
    DS9, Season 2: “Second Sight”
    DS9, Season 2: “The Collaborator”
    DS9, Season 3: “Improbable Cause”
    DS9, Season 4: "The Muse"
    DS9, Season 5: “Things Past”
    DS9, Season 5: “The Darkness And The Light”
    DS9, Season 5: “A Simple Investigation”
    DS9, Season 6: “Honor Among Thieves”
    DS9, Season 6: “Inquisition”
    DS9, Season 7: “Prodigal Daughter”
    DS9, Season 7: “Field Of Fire”
    VOY, Season 1: “Ex Post Facto”
    VOY, Season 2: “Investigations”
    VOY, Season 3: “Fair Trade”
    VOY, Season 3: “Darkling”
    VOY, Season 4: “The Raven”
    ENT, Season 3: “Rajiin”
    ENT, Season 3: “Carpenter Street”
    ENT, Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC, Season 1: “Stardust City Rag” [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
  15. The ABehrration

    The ABehrration Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Bad Thoughts
    Saving Things Past. It was something of an inversion of Necessary Evil, but it had elements that made it unique. It was great seeing Garak responding to the reality of the occupation, and Red Forman was awesome.

    TOS, Season 3: "Wink Of An Eye"
    TOS, Season 3: “Turnabout Intruder”
    TAS, Season 1: “The Lorelei Signal”
    TNG, Season 1: “Conspiracy”
    TNG, Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG, Season 3: “A Matter Of Perspective”
    TNG, Season 4: “Clues”
    TNG, Season 6: "Man Of The People"
    TNG, Season 6: “Aquiel”
    TNG, Season 6: “Suspicions”
    DS9, Season 1: “In The Hands Of The Prophets”
    DS9, Season 2: “Second Sight”
    DS9, Season 2: “The Collaborator”
    DS9, Season 3: “Improbable Cause”
    DS9, Season 4: "The Muse"
    DS9, Season 5: “The Darkness And The Light”
    DS9, Season 5: “A Simple Investigation”
    DS9, Season 6: “Honor Among Thieves”
    DS9, Season 6: “Inquisition”
    DS9, Season 7: “Prodigal Daughter”
    DS9, Season 7: “Field Of Fire”
    VOY, Season 1: “Ex Post Facto”
    VOY, Season 2: “Investigations”
    VOY, Season 3: “Fair Trade”
    VOY, Season 3: “Darkling”
    VOY, Season 4: “The Raven”
    ENT, Season 3: “Rajiin”
    ENT, Season 3: “Carpenter Street”
    ENT, Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC, Season 1: “Stardust City Rag” [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
    Orphalesion, Sakonna and Farscape One like this.
  16. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Watch out HYDRA - here we come! Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Location:
    UK
    Improbable Cause is one of my favourite DS9 episodes, with the great mystery behind who blew up Garak's shop, and Odo trying to get to the bottom of it all.

    It has a great stinger of a cliffhanger as well, with Garak siding with Tain to fight the Dominion.

    TOS, Season 3: "Wink Of An Eye"
    TOS, Season 3: “Turnabout Intruder”
    TAS, Season 1: “The Lorelei Signal”
    TNG, Season 1: “Conspiracy”
    TNG, Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG, Season 3: “A Matter Of Perspective”
    TNG, Season 4: “Clues”
    TNG, Season 6: "Man Of The People"
    TNG, Season 6: “Aquiel”
    TNG, Season 6: “Suspicions”
    DS9, Season 1: “In The Hands Of The Prophets”
    DS9, Season 2: “Second Sight”
    DS9, Season 2: “The Collaborator”
    DS9, Season 4: "The Muse"
    DS9, Season 5: “The Darkness And The Light”
    DS9, Season 5: “A Simple Investigation”
    DS9, Season 6: “Honor Among Thieves”
    DS9, Season 6: “Inquisition”
    DS9, Season 7: “Prodigal Daughter”
    DS9, Season 7: “Field Of Fire”
    VOY, Season 1: “Ex Post Facto”
    VOY, Season 2: “Investigations”
    VOY, Season 3: “Fair Trade”
    VOY, Season 3: “Darkling”
    VOY, Season 4: “The Raven”
    ENT, Season 3: “Rajiin”
    ENT, Season 3: “Carpenter Street”
    ENT, Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC, Season 1: “Stardust City Rag” [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
  17. Sakonna

    Sakonna Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    OK, I have "Honor Among Thieves" on right now, no offense to whoever eventually saves it, but this ep is RI-DIC-U-LOUS.

    I mean, first, this dialogue:

    BILBY: Where did you get the parts!?
    O'BRIEN: I stole them...
    BILBY: Why didn't you just say so?
    O'BRIEN: I thought it was better if you didn't know. You know, in case the police caught up with me.
    BILBY: You lied to me -- because you didn't want me to be implicated?
    O'BRIEN: Yeah. I'm sorry.
    BILBY [to his other underlings]: Did you hear that? He's willing to protect me if he gets caught! Try hard as I may, I can't imagine either of you willing to do that!

    What the hell kind of terrifying mega criminal syndicate is this?!? This is pretty basic mob stuff, guys!!! Don't tell the boss every little thing, underlings protect the higher-ups, etc.

    Also, I somehow never noticed how accidentally sexual the Bilby/O'Brien scenes are! This is obviously (probably?) not the actual writer intent, but Bilby feels like a closeted guy sniffing around if O'Brien is up for some action.

    Bilby keeps bringing O'Brien back to his place at night...
    That one scene feels like he's getting undressed...
    He buys O'Brien some (sexy) new clothes...
    Gets O'Brien a prostitute -- in Bilby's studio apartment! So is Bilby going to watch, is that the suggestion?!?
    He actually says "don't tell me you don't like girls?"

    It is all very early Garak!

    Oh my lord. I had actually paused the episode during the climax, as O'Brien confesses to Bilby, to write the above. I just went back and unpaused it, and the very next line is Bilby, eyes as dewy as a 1940's ingenue, voice tremulous with vulnerability, gazing yearningly at O'Brien and saying:

    BILBY: "You were too good to be true. I wanted so much to believe my luck had changed."

    [​IMG][​IMG] Wow. OK, maybe this is supposed to be read as a torrid romance after all.

    And actually, as ridiculous as this script is (it's somehow both completely crazy and totally generic!), I do think this episode is fabulously executed. The guest cast is excellent. They do a great job with realizing Skeezy Crime Planet -- that establishing shot is GORGEOUS, the planet set is exceedingly well shot, the lighting and smoke effects look great, they populate their ominous corners with the right kind of sketchy background aliens (Dopterians!) -- it all creates a really wonderful atmosphere.

    Though I was taken aback by the Fu Manchu styling and dialect-y line-readings from that one henchman. That was bad.

    There's another structural thing in this ep I love, that DS9 format where they send one or two characters off alone for the week to do the whole story, and every other regular is crammed into only one or two scenes. I love when these scenes pop up early, as they do here -- during original air I had fun speculating "beginning of B-story, or one-scene mega-cameo?"

    I had also totally forgotten this episode had a Dominion tie-in, so I actually gasped when the Vorta walked out. It's not often I can be surprised by these decades-old reruns!

    Fuck, I started this just intending to mock "Honor Among Thieves" for a minute and then move on to a save a different ep, but I had so much fun writing that and I feel like I have just discovered for the first time how to appreciate this episode. So I am saving "Honor Among Thieves" now instead.

    I wonder if I should push my luck and revisit the similarly unexciting-in-my-memory follow-up "Prodigal Daughter", to see if I find new things to suddenly appreciate there as well...

    TOS, Season 3: "Wink Of An Eye"
    TOS, Season 3: “Turnabout Intruder”
    TAS, Season 1: “The Lorelei Signal”
    TNG, Season 1: “Conspiracy”
    TNG, Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG, Season 3: “A Matter Of Perspective”
    TNG, Season 4: “Clues”
    TNG, Season 6: "Man Of The People"
    TNG, Season 6: “Aquiel”
    TNG, Season 6: “Suspicions”
    DS9, Season 1: “In The Hands Of The Prophets”
    DS9, Season 2: “Second Sight”
    DS9, Season 2: “The Collaborator”
    DS9, Season 4: "The Muse"
    DS9, Season 5: “The Darkness And The Light”
    DS9, Season 5: “A Simple Investigation”
    DS9, Season 6: “Inquisition”
    DS9, Season 7: “Prodigal Daughter”
    DS9, Season 7: “Field Of Fire”
    VOY, Season 1: “Ex Post Facto”
    VOY, Season 2: “Investigations”
    VOY, Season 3: “Fair Trade”
    VOY, Season 3: “Darkling”
    VOY, Season 4: “The Raven”
    ENT, Season 3: “Rajiin”
    ENT, Season 3: “Carpenter Street”
    ENT, Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC, Season 1: “Stardust City Rag” [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  18. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Saving "THE DARKNESS AND THE LIGHT".

    A great episode, and wonderful performances all around. Kira's last words at the end are so spot on, too.

    TOS, Season 3: "Wink Of An Eye"
    TOS, Season 3: “Turnabout Intruder”
    TAS, Season 1: “The Lorelei Signal”
    TNG, Season 1: “Conspiracy”
    TNG, Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG, Season 3: “A Matter Of Perspective”
    TNG, Season 4: “Clues”
    TNG, Season 6: "Man Of The People"
    TNG, Season 6: “Aquiel”
    TNG, Season 6: “Suspicions”
    DS9, Season 1: “In The Hands Of The Prophets”
    DS9, Season 2: “Second Sight”
    DS9, Season 2: “The Collaborator”
    DS9, Season 4: "The Muse"
    DS9, Season 5: “A Simple Investigation”
    DS9, Season 6: “Inquisition”
    DS9, Season 7: “Prodigal Daughter”
    DS9, Season 7: “Field Of Fire”
    VOY, Season 1: “Ex Post Facto”
    VOY, Season 2: “Investigations”
    VOY, Season 3: “Fair Trade”
    VOY, Season 3: “Darkling”
    VOY, Season 4: “The Raven”
    ENT, Season 3: “Rajiin”
    ENT, Season 3: “Carpenter Street”
    ENT, Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC, Season 1: “Stardust City Rag” [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
  19. The ABehrration

    The ABehrration Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Bad Thoughts
    IIRC, Honor among thieves was considered among DS9's stronger episodes when it first came out. Time has not been kind to it, perhaps because of the association with Prodigal Daughter, pehaps because it seems to be unimportant to the Dominion War, even though it obviously connects to it (especially via One Small Ship). Personally, I've felt that Meaney was underwhelming, playing too much the mirror O'Brien in order to appear passive.

    Your comments, though, remind me of what makes the series different not just from other Star Trek series, but in science fiction in general. DS9 is slow. The plot evolves slowly (unless the writers are up against deadlines). The structure of stories might be less important than what the characters say and so. Sometimes it is barely science fiction. For all complaints that Berman and Piller plagiarized, Babylon 5 is almost DS9's polar opposite: plot heavy, character weak, lots of emphasis on space.
     
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  20. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Gonna save
    Ds9, season 7, Prodigal Daughter

    I loved Ezri's character, I wish we would have had more of her. And it was nice to see the civilian side of life with her family.
    Also a pretty good portrayal of the less nice sides of family life, even if it was an extreme case.
    The only problem is how to reconcile that whole episode with the "no money" and "no poverty" thing... Maybe New Sydney had seceded from the Federation? :shrug:

    TOS, Season 3: "Wink Of An Eye"
    TOS, Season 3: “Turnabout Intruder”
    TAS, Season 1: “The Lorelei Signal”
    TNG, Season 1: “Conspiracy”
    TNG, Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG, Season 3: “A Matter Of Perspective”
    TNG, Season 4: “Clues”
    TNG, Season 6: "Man Of The People"
    TNG, Season 6: “Aquiel”
    TNG, Season 6: “Suspicions”
    DS9, Season 1: “In The Hands Of The Prophets”
    DS9, Season 2: “Second Sight”
    DS9, Season 2: “The Collaborator”
    DS9, Season 4: "The Muse"
    DS9, Season 5: “A Simple Investigation”
    DS9, Season 6: “Inquisition”
    DS9, Season 7: “Field Of Fire”
    VOY, Season 1: “Ex Post Facto”
    VOY, Season 2: “Investigations”
    VOY, Season 3: “Fair Trade”
    VOY, Season 3: “Darkling”
    VOY, Season 4: “The Raven”
    ENT, Season 3: “Rajiin”
    ENT, Season 3: “Carpenter Street”
    ENT, Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC, Season 1: “Stardust City Rag” [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
    Farscape One and Sakonna like this.