Game The Most Disliked Guinan Appearance

[Seven of Five]

I always quite liked Times Arrow, as the episode starts off with Data's head was a delightfully odd way to start the episode. Guinan's involvement in the past when Data ends up there was fun too.

TNG Season 2: "The Child"
TNG Season 2: "The Outrageous Okona"
TNG Season 4: "The Loss"
TNG Season 4: "Clues"
TNG Season 4: "Galaxy's Child"
TNG Season 4: "Night Terrors"
TNG Season 4: "In Theory"
TNG Season 4: "Redemption I"
TNG Season 5: "Redemption II"
TNG Season 5: "Imaginary Friend"
TNG Season 6: "Time's Arrow, Part II"
TNG Season 6: "Suspicions"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Generations"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Nemesis"
PIC Season 2: "Watcher"
PIC Season 2: "Monsters"
PIC Season 2: "Mercy"
PIC Season 2: "Farewell"

 

[Sakonna]

"Farewell" was a very satisfying end to the season, and it REALLY knew how to use Whoopi.

Spoiler

Honestly, the Rios story in season 2 was so fucking stupid, but it actually landed -- because Whoopi landed it! I was fully sobbing as she recounted how the rest of Rios's life went.

TNG Season 2: "The Child"
TNG Season 2: "The Outrageous Okona"
TNG Season 4: "The Loss"
TNG Season 4: "Clues"
TNG Season 4: "Galaxy's Child"
TNG Season 4: "Night Terrors"
TNG Season 4: "In Theory"
TNG Season 4: "Redemption I"
TNG Season 5: "Redemption II"
TNG Season 5: "Imaginary Friend"
TNG Season 6: "Time's Arrow, Part II"
TNG Season 6: "Suspicions"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Generations"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Nemesis"
PIC Season 2: "Watcher"
PIC Season 2: "Monsters"
PIC Season 2: "Mercy"

 

[Cyfa]

Hi @MarkusTay, and welcome to the game! Your opinion of Whoopi Goldberg may have soured, but I'm sure there must be something else about these episodes that you enjoy, so why not play along and eliminate your favourite (or least disliked) remaining episode ("Q Who?" has already been saved, as you can see)? Take a look at the rules in the leading post of this thread if you're unsure what to do

I'm going to save TNG: "Night Terrors" as I love a good Troi Story, and she does save the ship in this rather creepy (if somewhat slow) episode.

TNG Season 2: "The Child"
TNG Season 2: "The Outrageous Okona"
TNG Season 4: "The Loss"
TNG Season 4: "Clues"
TNG Season 4: "Galaxy's Child"
TNG Season 4: "In Theory"
TNG Season 4: "Redemption I"
TNG Season 5: "Redemption II"
TNG Season 5: "Imaginary Friend"
TNG Season 6: "Time's Arrow, Part II"
TNG Season 6: "Suspicions"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Generations"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Nemesis"
PIC Season 2: "Watcher"
PIC Season 2: "Monsters"
PIC Season 2: "Mercy"

 

[Oddish]

"Clues" was an awesome mystery, with Data's strange behavior and all the oddities popping up.

TNG Season 2: "The Child"
TNG Season 2: "The Outrageous Okona"
TNG Season 4: "The Loss"
TNG Season 4: "Galaxy's Child"
TNG Season 4: "In Theory"
TNG Season 4: "Redemption I"
TNG Season 5: "Redemption II"
TNG Season 5: "Imaginary Friend"
TNG Season 6: "Time's Arrow, Part II"
TNG Season 6: "Suspicions"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Generations"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Nemesis"
PIC Season 2: "Watcher"
PIC Season 2: "Monsters"
PIC Season 2: "Mercy"

 

[Qonundrum]

The highly anticipated sequel that nobody was expecting,

TNG Season 4: "Galaxy's Child"

is a bit of a mixed bag, though the Guinan scene stands out about Geordi's "real VISOR" and how the real person is different from the role someone else created for them. Nice allegory, that... but the days computers write good scripts... it's bad enough with humans already and "Galaxy's Child" is no exception! In another review I mentioned "never meet your heroes" and this episode plays into that, regardless of the volumes of nitpicks generated over the decades.

...decades...

(On edit: replaced "episode" with "scene" in the "mixed bag" sentence. My bad. )

What's left:
TNG Season 2: "The Child"
TNG Season 2: "The Outrageous Okona"
TNG Season 4: "The Loss"
TNG Season 4: "In Theory"
TNG Season 4: "Redemption I"
TNG Season 5: "Redemption II"
TNG Season 5: "Imaginary Friend"
TNG Season 6: "Time's Arrow, Part II"
TNG Season 6: "Suspicions"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Generations"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Nemesis"
PIC Season 2: "Watcher"
PIC Season 2: "Monsters"
PIC Season 2: "Mercy"

 

[Qonundrum]

I used to love any appearance by Whoopi, but she's gone off-the-rails (IMO) in the last few years, and it has sadly tainted my opinion of her scenes and TNG in general. Whereas I used to find joy at seeing her, I now get annoyed.

Never conflate the actor's role with the actor in tangible real life. For any reasons you like or dislike, maybe something was said in a TV show, how do you know it's them and not an act? Ad-libbing is real. Even Jerry Springer guests are said to be allowed free rein, as long as they keep the the basic script. Some episodes of "The Big Bang Theory" poke light at this, with Stan Lee and James Earl Jones when Sheldon meets them too. Or is that, "free reign"? I'll look that up one day as I mix up those two a lot...

Why does a starship (with replicators) need a bartender?

Because of the need for social interaction?

Shouldn't that lazy Deana Troi been doing a lot of what she was doing?

I suspect Troi would have gotten the additional material, had Whoopi turned down the role.

Anyhow, if I had to pick one, I would say its the one where Whoopi meets Q (Q Who?). I used to love that scene, but now it just irks the heck out me. What was she planning to do? Scratch his eyes out? Its just silly.

She's an alien and aliens do gestures and things humans don't. I'm still amazed that, even in the 1980s, sci-fi was still aware of this and did things genuinely awkward. For all we know, she was about to emit lightning beams. Whatever it was, Q was suitably taken aback and kept a defensive posture, as far as Q goes. Q and Guinan certainly knew each other, and for all the talk of being El Aurian, she might even be a Q - or the El Aurians are nearly as advanced as the Q.

Funny thing is, Phlox became the Guinan on Voyager, and Will Riker (as 'Chef') became the Guinan on Enterprise. Think about it - the way the characters were interacting with Chef was the same as how they interacted with Guinan on the Enterprise D. In my head-canon, Riker's clone went back in time and was the chef on Enterprise the whole time.

LOL, nice. I'll have to look up the ENT episodes with Chef Riker. It never grabbed me as a series, though season 4 had some interesting moments.

 

[Seven of Five]

May as well save the second part of Times Arrow. I love the scene where Picard and the crew are staying at that place but haven't paid any rent, and they distract Mrs. Carmichael by having her rehearse and saying that she's perfect.

Picard and Guinan meet for the first time in the past. Well, Guinan's first, in that time period.

What's left:
TNG Season 2: "The Child"
TNG Season 2: "The Outrageous Okona"
TNG Season 4: "The Loss"
TNG Season 4: "In Theory"
TNG Season 4: "Redemption I"
TNG Season 5: "Redemption II"
TNG Season 5: "Imaginary Friend"
TNG Season 6: "Suspicions"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Generations"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Nemesis"
PIC Season 2: "Watcher"
PIC Season 2: "Monsters"
PIC Season 2: "Mercy"

 

[Farscape One]

Saving "In Theory".

Because Data.


TNG Season 2: "The Child"
TNG Season 2: "The Outrageous Okona"
TNG Season 4: "The Loss"
TNG Season 4: "Redemption I"
TNG Season 5: "Redemption II"
TNG Season 5: "Imaginary Friend"
TNG Season 6: "Suspicions"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Generations"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Nemesis"
PIC Season 2: "Watcher"
PIC Season 2: "Monsters"
PIC Season 2: "Mercy"

 

[Oddish]

I'll save "The Child", because it brings in Pulaski. And the concept was a totally interesting... certainly it takes the concept of exploring to a crazy new level.

TNG Season 2: "The Outrageous Okona"
TNG Season 4: "The Loss"
TNG Season 4: "Redemption I"
TNG Season 5: "Redemption II"
TNG Season 5: "Imaginary Friend"
TNG Season 6: "Suspicions"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Generations"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Nemesis"
PIC Season 2: "Watcher"
PIC Season 2: "Monsters"
PIC Season 2: "Mercy"

 

[Qonundrum]

Other stories may be better in some and other aspects, but

TNG Season 2: "The Outrageous Okona"

has a great double-act between Guinan and Data.They even steal the show away from the Comic!

The story is a bizarre mishmash of a Shakespeare tragedy melded with an episode of Three's Company. And Star Wars if Okona's hair along with the rest of him was supposed to be the Ham Solo archetype. Had the story worked, and with the Comic being the funny one, it'd have been better regarded.


What's left:
TNG Season 4: "The Loss"
TNG Season 4: "Redemption I"
TNG Season 5: "Redemption II"
TNG Season 5: "Imaginary Friend"
TNG Season 6: "Suspicions"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Generations"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Nemesis"
PIC Season 2: "Watcher"
PIC Season 2: "Monsters"
PIC Season 2: "Mercy"

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I'm going to save TNG Season 4: "Redemption I", because it's one of the best TNG two-parters and helped give the series (and the Star Trek universe) a more epic feel, with the Klingon Empire being torn apart by rival houses supported by the Federation and the Romulans, and Worf's discommendation arc getting a payoff. Plus I think it's the one where Guinan proves she's got better aim than Worf with a phaser, which was a nice scene.

TNG Season 4: "The Loss"
TNG Season 5: "Redemption II"
TNG Season 5: "Imaginary Friend"
TNG Season 6: "Suspicions"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Generations"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Nemesis"
PIC Season 2: "Watcher"
PIC Season 2: "Monsters"
PIC Season 2: "Mercy"

 

[at Quark's]

I don't think her appearance in TNG Feature: "Star Trek Generations" was too bad, so saving that one. Nothing exceptional perhaps, but decent enough.

TNG Season 4: "The Loss"
TNG Season 5: "Redemption II"
TNG Season 5: "Imaginary Friend"
TNG Season 6: "Suspicions"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Nemesis"
PIC Season 2: "Watcher"
PIC Season 2: "Monsters"
PIC Season 2: "Mercy"

 

[Seven of Five]

I love that Guinan is a jack of all trades, be it romance, phaser accuracy, or performing comedy.

I'll save Redemption II, even if I'm having trouble thinking about Guinan's role in it, it was a great follow-up to the first part.

EDIT: What a spanner! How did I forget Yesterday's Enterprise/Yar/Sela? One of my favourite episodes. Nothing to see...

TNG Season 4: "The Loss"
TNG Season 5: "Imaginary Friend"
TNG Season 6: "Suspicions"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Nemesis"
PIC Season 2: "Watcher"
PIC Season 2: "Monsters"
PIC Season 2: "Mercy"

 

[MarkusTay]

LOL, nice. I'll have to look up the ENT episodes with Chef Riker. It never grabbed me as a series, though season 4 had some interesting moments.

Its the final episode, which a lot of people don't like because it was weirdly a crossover with TNG. I loved it though, because I loved how they were able to 'cover their butts' with the writing, simply by saying the entire show had been holodek version of history. Thats a great way of fixing continuity.

Seems my original post got deleted, because someone must not have liked the idea a person's opinion of a character can be damaged by their opinions of the actor, or that someone should even have an opinion of an actor {gasp!}
But I did make an error in what I posted, which I came back here to correct, and since you quoted me, is still relevant - I meant Neelix, not Phlox. I always get those two characters names mixed up (probably because they were both aliens on UFP ships that were constantly smiling). Neelix was the one who was definitely the 'Guinan' of Voyager. Moral officer? WTH?

So in the spirit of this thread, and as a homage to both Kirk & Tucker - make Whoopi, not war.
Peace

 

[Summer Solstice]

My favourites have been eliminated already. However, I'm very surprised that SUSPICIONS is still on this list (it's not anymore!) - it's a very solid Dr Crusher episode with an interesting mystery, I liked seeing the Ferengi scientist because it's cool to see someone who wants to do something totally different to the stereotype about them and if it was anyone other than Dr Crusher I think Picard would have come down a lot harder on them.

TNG Season 4: "The Loss"
TNG Season 5: "Imaginary Friend"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Nemesis"
PIC Season 2: "Watcher"
PIC Season 2: "Monsters"
PIC Season 2: "Mercy"

 

[Oddish]

I will save "The Loss". Despite severe inconsistency, I do like its examination of grief and dealing with a sudden disability.

TNG Season 5: "Imaginary Friend"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Nemesis"
PIC Season 2: "Watcher"
PIC Season 2: "Monsters"
PIC Season 2: "Mercy"

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I'm going to save PIC Season 2: "Mercy", mostly because I liked Guinan in it.

TNG Season 5: "Imaginary Friend"
TNG Feature: "Star Trek Nemesis"
PIC Season 2: "Watcher"
PIC Season 2: "Monsters"

 

[Sakonna]

Seems my original post got deleted, because someone must not have liked the idea a person's opinion of a character can be damaged by their opinions of the actor, or that someone should even have an opinion of an actor {gasp!}

The original post that still displays on the bottom of page one of this thread, you mean?

I kind of like "Imaginary Friend", I've actually never understood the intensity of the hate for it. That girl playing the titular friend is quite effectively creepy. Nice Guinan moments. That scene where Isabella reveals herself to Troi and zaps her with an energy beam is great. I always like an opening with a spooky ball of light penetrating the ship for mysterious reasons.

TNG Feature: "Star Trek Nemesis"
PIC Season 2: "Watcher"
PIC Season 2: "Monsters"

 

[Seven of Five]

We're at the dregs of the list now. I'll save Star Trek: Nemesis as it showed some potential, despite losing track of the nature vs. nurture theme. it's a shame that Data's death at the end was poor. It's also a shame that a large number of character scenes were cut, as they really could have added warmth to the film.

It did give the sense that the crew was moving on, at least. The wedding scene at the start was heartwarming, and seeing Guinan back was a blast.

PIC Season 2: "Watcher"
PIC Season 2: "Monsters"

 

[Farscape One]

Saving "Watcher". Because it's not as bad as "Monsters".