The Moment (spoilers)
- Thread starter G2309
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Would've been interesting to see what Bad Wolf had made of Clara...
I was going to make a new thread but I decided not to.
So here's a debate that has been going on in the fandom for awhie.
Is the Bad Wolf Rose Tyler or the consciousness of the Doctor's TARDIS (time vortex) in physical form?
In The Parting of the Ways was it Rose saving the Doctor using the infinite powers of the time vortex running through her? Or was the TARDIS using Rose as a surrogate host in order to save the Doctor?
In The Day of The Doctor, the Bad Wolf again uses Rose's likeness to give a form to it's conscious mind and uses it as a medium to communicate only to the Warrior Doctor. With how the Bad Wolf speaks, the past tense. It appears that from it's point of view, The Parting of the Ways is behind it, and this is a future version of itself from it's first appearance.
On Another Note.
Looking at the Day of The Doctor and the Parting of the ways. There is a parallel event that occurs. In TPOTW the Doctor has a choice to make, use the Delta wave and destroy all the Daleks and Humanity or not to use the Delta wave.
The Bad Wolf shows up and wipes the Dalek's away soon afterward.
In TDOTD the Bad Wolf again presents itself before the Doctor and allows him to see his future selves. She brings him back to desert planet he was on.
The Doctor decides he is going to use The Moment.
It is by the power of the Bad Wolf that 10 and 11 are allowed to break the timelock of the time war. They resolve to push the button together, having reconicled what they did the first time and finally acknowledging the bravery the Warrior Doctor made in his decision. Clara intervenes and proposes The Doctor's find another way. Which they do of course, and the Bad Wolf seems pleased.
I think she wanted to change history. Having knoweldge of the Doctor's suffering from his decision of destroying Galifrey. She set in motion a series of events to change it. The Bad Wolf once again comes to the Doctor's rescue to relieve him of making and impossible hard choice with regards to genocide.
So here's a debate that has been going on in the fandom for awhie.
Is the Bad Wolf Rose Tyler or the consciousness of the Doctor's TARDIS (time vortex) in physical form?
In The Parting of the Ways was it Rose saving the Doctor using the infinite powers of the time vortex running through her? Or was the TARDIS using Rose as a surrogate host in order to save the Doctor?
In The Day of The Doctor, the Bad Wolf again uses Rose's likeness to give a form to it's conscious mind and uses it as a medium to communicate only to the Warrior Doctor. With how the Bad Wolf speaks, the past tense. It appears that from it's point of view, The Parting of the Ways is behind it, and this is a future version of itself from it's first appearance.
On Another Note.
Looking at the Day of The Doctor and the Parting of the ways. There is a parallel event that occurs. In TPOTW the Doctor has a choice to make, use the Delta wave and destroy all the Daleks and Humanity or not to use the Delta wave.
The Bad Wolf shows up and wipes the Dalek's away soon afterward.
In TDOTD the Bad Wolf again presents itself before the Doctor and allows him to see his future selves. She brings him back to desert planet he was on.
The Doctor decides he is going to use The Moment.
It is by the power of the Bad Wolf that 10 and 11 are allowed to break the timelock of the time war. They resolve to push the button together, having reconicled what they did the first time and finally acknowledging the bravery the Warrior Doctor made in his decision. Clara intervenes and proposes The Doctor's find another way. Which they do of course, and the Bad Wolf seems pleased.
I think she wanted to change history. Having knoweldge of the Doctor's suffering from his decision of destroying Galifrey. She set in motion a series of events to change it. The Bad Wolf once again comes to the Doctor's rescue to relieve him of making and impossible hard choice with regards to genocide.
And this is pretty much the only let down of the episode for me. I really would have prefered to have Bille Piper return as Rose proper, not some weird AI. The time the Doctor met Elisabeth could just as well have been during his time with Rose.
Actually, not, as it was implied in the Shakespeare code, that those events are yet to come.
I was going to make a new thread but I decided not to.
So here's a debate that has been going on in the fandom for awhie.
Is the Bad Wolf Rose Tyler or the consciousness of the Doctor's TARDIS (time vortex) in physical form?
In The Parting of the Ways was it Rose saving the Doctor using the infinite powers of the time vortex running through her? Or was the TARDIS using Rose as a surrogate host in order to save the Doctor?
In The Day of The Doctor, the Bad Wolf again uses Rose's likeness to give a form to it's conscious mind and uses it as a medium to communicate only to the Warrior Doctor. With how the Bad Wolf speaks, the past tense. It appears that from it's point of view, The Parting of the Ways is behind it, and this is a future version of itself from it's first appearance.
On Another Note.
Looking at the Day of The Doctor and the Parting of the ways. There is a parallel event that occurs. In TPOTW the Doctor has a choice to make, use the Delta wave and destroy all the Daleks and Humanity or not to use the Delta wave.
The Bad Wolf shows up and wipes the Dalek's away soon afterward.
In TDOTD the Bad Wolf again presents itself before the Doctor and allows him to see his future selves. She brings him back to desert planet he was on.
The Doctor decides he is going to use The Moment.
It is by the power of the Bad Wolf that 10 and 11 are allowed to break the timelock of the time war. They resolve to push the button together, having reconicled what they did the first time and finally acknowledging the bravery the Warrior Doctor made in his decision. Clara intervenes and proposes The Doctor's find another way. Which they do of course, and the Bad Wolf seems pleased.
I think she wanted to change history. Having knoweldge of the Doctor's suffering from his decision of destroying Galifrey. She set in motion a series of events to change it. The Bad Wolf once again comes to the Doctor's rescue to relieve him of making and impossible hard choice with regards to genocide.
Doesn't the Bad Wolf at the end state "the Time War ends", which we originally thought was just referencing the destruction of the Daleks that had escaped the war. The thing is, that wouldn't account for all the other Daleks that had hidden like the Cult of Skaro, so retroactively it could be more in reference to the events we now know happened in "The Day of the Doctor".
Yes, thats what I thought, too. And in effect, manipulated events to force the Doctor in all his 13 lives to rewrite the outcome of the Time War for Gallifrey - not destroyed, but now hidden away, somehow.
I want to know what the Doctors did with the Moment. Did they leave it in a barn in the middle of nowhere, which would seem negligent, or is it still in the TARDIS? They didn't take it with them to Gallifrey. I doubt they'd trust UNIT with it.
What I found interesting, and it might just be nonsense really, but I felt that the Doctor alwas chooses a companion because he sees something in that person. Now, since we now know that Eccleston was the first Doctor after 'the Moment', it could stand to reason that one of the things he was looking for most was redemption after what he did in the Time War. His companion was Rose. I just somehow find it a nice nod that when the Moment wanted to give the War Doctor a change to redeem himself, it chose to look like Rose.
But yeah, maybe that's just me.
But yeah, maybe that's just me.
Bad Wolf probably made the Moment disappear cos it's such a powerful weapon.
OR it'll show up again at the back of the cupboard on the Tardis.
OR it'll show up again at the back of the cupboard on the Tardis.
From the dialogue, the marriage to Queen Elizabeth took place sometime between "Waters of Mars" and "The End Of Time"
From the script of End Of Time Part One:-
EXT. OOD-SPHERE SURFACE, DAY
There is a light snow falling and a strong wind is blowing. The TARDIS materializes. The DOCTOR steps out wearing a straw hat and a pink lei. OOD-SIGMA is waiting for him.
DOCTOR:
Ah! Now! Sorry! There you are. (closes TARDIS and puts hands in his pockets) So, where were we? I was summoned, wasn't I? An Ood, in the snow, calling to me. (walks forwards) Well, I didn't exactly come straight here. Had a bit of fun, y'know, travelled about, did this and that. Got into trouble, you know me. It was brilliant. I saw the Phosphorous Carousel of the Great Magellan Gestadt. Saved a planet from the Red Carnivorous Maw. Named a galaxy Alison. Got married. That was a mistake. Good Queen Bess, and let me tell you, her nickname is no longer... (clears throat) Anyway... what d'you want?
OOD-SIGMA:
You should not have delayed.
DOCTOR:
The last time I was here, you said my song would be ending soon. And I'm in no hurry for that.
Since the new series was launched on the strength of Rose as a character thanks to Billie Piper's performance, she was the perfect choice to be the quasi-narrator of the 50th.
The first two series were about her, after all.
The first two series were about her, after all.
As I was watching the special, the thing I thought about the most was what if Cathrine Tate had been in the role that Piper was in. I like both actresses, but I think Tate would have brought more emotional resonance to the role, and for some reason I was actually distracted every time Piper was on the screen.
Good point, although it ruins the timey wimey reference (now it's just David Tennant playing dumb as opposed to being genuinely ignorant).
Anyway, to answer the question: Susan would have been a bit odd. The Moment needed a bit of menace to it, which the Bad Wolf works perfectly for. I think if Carol Ann Ford returns, it should be as Susan proper. Anything else would be a cop out.
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