The Mirror Universe Does not exist

[stardream]

Someone somewhere postulated this idea and I have been trying to track it down. I can't remember if it was here or on reddit or any of the other places I visit. Yes I used the search function and I googled it.

Does this ring a bell with anyone? Anyone remember it the reasoning behind it or what thread it's buried in?

And if it was your theory (or if you remember it) could you please restate it?

I am willing to accept that this might be wishful thinking on my part.

 

[PhaserLightShow]

The Mirror Universe does exist. But in Star Trek: Preserver (written by William Shatner, part of Shatnerverse), the Mirror Universe was about to be destroyed because of the dilithium ionization above Halkan. It would create a singularity that would "swallow" the Mirror Universe. But that didn't happen.

 

[Kor]

I think somebody has hypothesized that, in "Mirror, Mirror," the whole mirror universe scenario was a trick by the Halkans. In that case, they are more than they seem to be, like the Organians.

But IMO that's reading a little too much into the story. Our heroes already showed that they were civilized and didn't take things by force. So it's not like they needed some cautionary lesson to teach them not to become that way.

And later Trek treated the mirror universe as a real thing.

Kor

 

[PhaserLightShow]

It is a real thing. Even if in Preserver it was destroyed, the "Shatnerverse" is not completely official.

 

[hux]

I've come to the conclusion that I'm the only thing that truly exists and everyone else is purely here to facilitate my existence so when they leave the room, they're instantly consumed by oblivion only to re-emerge from it if (and when) I phone them and ask them to bring me some cake.

This is pretty much how I feel about the mirror universe.

 

[Kor]

It is a real thing. Even if in Preserver it was destroyed, the "Shatnerverse" is not completely official.

Technically, none of the novels are considered "cannnnnnnon"; only what is depicted on the TV shows and movies "actually" happened. And within the realm of the novels, the Shatnerverse is in its own separate continuity.

That doesn't mean the novels aren't worthwhile, though. The whole notion of fictional "cannnnnnnnnnnnnnon" is rather dubious, IMO.

Kor

 

[stardream]

I've come to the conclusion that I'm the only thing that truly exists and everyone else is purely here to facilitate my existence so when they leave the room, they're instantly consumed by oblivion only to re-emerge from it if (and when) I phone them and ask them to bring me some cake.

This is pretty much how I feel about the mirror universe.

This is actually close to the theory I am looking for. Apparently when the movers in the prime Universe do something (or go somewhere) the Mirror Universe comes into existence temporarily but as soon as the prime characters leave...it ceases to exist.

But that's a very mangled retelling of the theory the person actually came up with. His idea was much more detailed.

 

[PhaserLightShow]

Technically, none of the novels are considered "cannnnnnnon"; only what is depicted on the TV shows and movies "actually" happened. And within the realm of the novels, the Shatnerverse is in its own separate continuity.

That doesn't mean the novels aren't worthwhile, though. The whole notion of fictional "cannnnnnnnnnnnnnon" is rather dubious, IMO.

Kor

I agree. The novels are good. I read all of the Shatnerverse (great) but we seem to be discussing the TV series, Captain Kor. Just wanted to add a little extra wisdom. And thank you.

 

[Kor]

Another idea was that the existence of the mirror universe was basically caused by the unique circumstances of the ion storm and transporter hiccup. I'm sure somebody else has elaborated more on this.

Kor

 

[PhaserLightShow]

Yes, but that theory is incorrect. In the story "In a Mirror, Darkly" (ENT) they explain what caused the Mirror Universe. What caused it? The Borg didn't come to invade Earth in the 21st century. So, the Enterprise-E didn't come. So Zefram Cochrane didn't become a better person (and make friends with the Vulcans under Jean-Luc's influence). Instead, "Zef" shot the Vulcans. They died, so the Empire came into existence (under his influence). Everyone else decided to follow the "Man who Invented Warp Drive". The Mirror Universe started because of something in the 24th Century (in the prime-normal). Before the time when the Borg would have come to Earth, everything was the same. Same universe. When Cochrane killed the Vulcans, the first major difference began and they really split off.

 

[Kor]

Yes, but that theory is incorrect. In the story "In a Mirror, Darkly" (ENT) they explain what caused the Mirror Universe. What caused it? The Borg didn't come to invade Earth in the 21st century. So, the Enterprise-E didn't come. So Zefram Cochrane didn't become a better person (and make friends with the Vulcans under Jean-Luc's influence). Instead, "Zef" shot the Vulcans. They died, so the Empire came into existence (under his influence). Everyone else decided to follow the "Man who Invented Warp Drive". The Mirror Universe started because of something in the 24th Century (in the prime-normal). Before the time when the Borg would have come to Earth, everything was the same. Same universe. When Cochrane killed the Vulcans, the first major difference began and they really split off.

As I said, later Trek treated the mirror universe as a real thing.

But in terms of the original intentions of the TOS story, later Trek doesn't matter.

Kor

 

[PhaserLightShow]

As I said, later Trek treated the mirror universe as a real thing.

But in terms of the original intentions of the TOS story, later Trek doesn't matter.

Kor

Because we don't have a Time Machine (like a TARDIS from Doctor Who) or The Guardian Of Forever or any spaceships capable of the Time-Speed Breakaway Factor. And yes, you're right: Later Trek does treat the Mirror Universe as a real thing. So then why are we having this debate at all? Why is this thread here if the Mirror Universe does exist as we both agree on, Kor.

 

[Ithekro]

But why would Spock have the mirror universe counterparts at all if the idea was to put Kirk in a Mirror Universe as a test?

There shouldn't even be someone to swap if it was just the locals testing the Federation.

 

[PhaserLightShow]

If it was a test, then there would be both groups (from both "universes") to make the test seem real and realistic (so Spock won't just ignore it). I don't believe the test theory, but there is your answer.

 

[Kor]

But why would Spock have the mirror universe counterparts at all if the idea was to put Kirk in a Mirror Universe as a test?

There shouldn't even be someone to swap if it was just the locals testing the Federation.

Yes, that's another area where the idea kind of falls apart.

If the scenario was supposed to be some kind of lesson or test, I think the episode would have made it clear with one last encounter with god-like Halkans giving Kirk a little lecture at the end of the episode.

Kor

 

[PhaserLightShow]

Yes, that's another area where the idea kind of falls apart.

If the scenario was supposed to be some kind of lesson or test, I think the episode would have made it clear with one last encounter with god-like Halkans giving Kirk a little lecture at the end of the episode.

Kor

Yes, but would the Halkans really let Kirk know it was a test. Wouldn't they just keep fear in him (to stop him: Kirk is stopped by past experience, not lectures).
Kirk wouldn't listen if he knew it was a test and was given a lecture. He doesn't keep those lectures in mind. Or listen to the Prime Directive. He would learn if he thought is was real and knew to avoid doing something like that or DIE (or just get punished a lot).

 

[stardream]

Why is this thread here if the Mirror Universe does exist as we both agree on, Kor.

The thread exists because I'm looking for a particular idea that I read about not long ago and wanted to...ponder over it as we fans do from time to time.

But you all have come up with some good key points.

 

[PhaserLightShow]

Yes, you are looking for an idea. But

The thread exists because I'm looking for a particular idea that I read about not long ago and wanted to...ponder over it as we fans do from time to time.

But you all have come up with some good key points.

I believe I speak for everyone here when I say thank you for complimenting what we said. But you yourself said this could be wishful thinking. Yes, the theory and its reasoning [could be] interesting, but the theory has been debunked (it appears) because as far as we know it has no evidence and there are contradictions in both semi-canon and canon material. Semi-canon and canon trump (not Donald Trump) non-canon. With all due respect. Sir.

 

[Kor]

The thread exists because I'm looking for a particular idea that I read about not long ago and wanted to...ponder over it as we fans do from time to time.

But you all have come up with some good key points.

Are any of the ideas we mentioned similar to the one you were thinking of?

Kor

 

[Guy Gardener]

No one from the Prime Universe exists the same anymore to ever again cross over to The Mirror Universe like they did any more now that they're been reimagined in the Abrams Alternate Universe, so Mirror Mirror never happens, or if Kirk visits, the visit (mission) is unlikely to coincide with a non artificial, nonweponized Halkan Ion storm.

Furthermore if the prime timeline does not exist any more then the Defiant from the Tholian Web can't have crossed over into Alternate Archer's Mirror universe story In a Mirror darkly, therefore that futuristic Federation Star Ship was never Used to conquer Terra the strenuously extend the imperial borders.

Multiuniversal domino jenga.

The Mirror Universe collapses because the Defiant is pulled out which means that later in Mirror Mirror Kirk and his minions cross over into an empty void, freeze and implode.

Kirk therefore never helps Gary 7 save the world in the 1960s, so he's never born to stop Edith Keller, and the whale probe kills all the NAZIs and Kirk is never born, and Nero has no fricken idea where he is when he gets to 2330-something thinking that a nonexistent federation needs to be taken down a peg.