"The Menagerie" questions

[fireproof78]

Actually, the entire premise is illogical. If the Talosians can create such illusions why not just create the illusion for Kirk that they have Special Orders to take Pike to Talos IV, no questions asked?

Probably because Kirk would question it. The Talosians probably felt like they needed to manipulate the situation to provide Kirk a rational explanation that he would accept, and not press the issue too hard.

Or they figured that Kirk would want to beat Spock himself for lying to him.

 

[Maurice]

^^^Nah. That's just rationalizing a weak premise. To wit: the Talosians can make the crew think they're doing ANYTHING, so they create the illusion that Kirk is delivering Pike to a medical facility on planet ClubMed IV. See?

 

[Mudd]

Look, the envelope written to turn "The Cage" into "The Menagerie" doesn't make much sense. It just needed to be done to pad the thing out.

 

[GNDN18]

^^^Nah. That's just rationalizing a weak premise. To wit: the Talosians can make the crew think they're doing ANYTHING, so they create the illusion that Kirk is delivering Pike to a medical facility on planet ClubMed IV. See?

We don't know the limits of Talosian telepathy. While I grant that this episode doesn't bear ultra-close examination (and I've been examining it for wee bit), we do know that Starfleet subspace monitors can track their transmissions. Further, Spock orders radio silence, suggesting that those few officers involved at the beginning of the court-martial could be controlled, but not the entire crew.

It could be that the Talosians could control a few individuals across interstellar distances for a period of time: say, perhaps, six days or so. Spock's cooperation might have been necessary and not merely gratuitous.

The frame story is told from Kirk's POV and he is kept off-balance by his friend's shockingly aberrant behavior, as well as the loss of his command. Likewise, the audience is distracted by the Talosians' sleight of hand in order for the big reveal to work. Having seen both the original and the frame story, I still find the payoff in the two-part episode to be more, well,
emotionally satisfying.

 

[Christopher]

Let's face it, the goal of the frame story was to provide both an excuse to show the original pilot and a story that created some drama or peril for the current cast. So that kind of ruled out a story where the Talosians arranged for things to happen smoothly and effortlessly.

I just kind of love the idea of doing it as a flashback story where the characters are essentially watching their own pilot episode on a big-screen TV.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I just kind of love the idea of doing it as a flashback story where the characters are essentially watching their own pilot episode on a big-screen TV.

It's kind of funny that, in "The Menagerie," we watch a TV show about people watching a TV show-- and the double remove doesn't stop us from getting into it. It's the only episode of Star Trek that Kirk ever saw.

With lifelong familiarity since childhood, it's possible to take for granted how beautiful and talented Susan Oliver was. She was truly one of the series' greatest guest stars.

 

[Metryq]

^ Still, for someone so experienced she came across kinda green.

 

[wildsulu]

It's kind of funny that, in "The Menagerie," we watch a TV show about people watching a TV show-- and the double remove doesn't stop us from getting into it. It's the only episode of Star Trek that Kirk ever saw.

<-- that's right!

 

[Timo]

Regarding rationalizations, the simple way would be to say that Talosian telepathy has a short, surface-to-orbit range, and its impressiveness (crowd control, ability to force people to believe the utterly impossible and do the unthinkable) depends on how many Talosians are at it.

In that scenario, everything that happens at SB11 would be the work of a small commando team of Talosians who somehow got out of their planet; only individual people could be influenced, then, and only the faintest suggestions of the most plausible scenarios ("I have to save Pike because I'm his loyal friend"; "Commodore Mendez is with me on this") made. And people looking like humans to us (say, Mendez - perhaps "he" was the only one?) would be those Talosian commandoes in disguise.

Actual strategic illusions would only become possible when the starship reaches Talosian orbit; Kirk would see Pike walk away, while much more sinister things were in fact going on with his ship as a hundred Talosians bombarded her with illusions and commands...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

It's kind of funny that, in "The Menagerie," we watch a TV show about people watching a TV show-- and the double remove doesn't stop us from getting into it. It's the only episode of Star Trek that Kirk ever saw.

<-- that's right!

What I find puzzling is who got that shot of Enterprise with all the the bridge crew? It's like the camera was able to see through the hull to film that scene.

 

[Christopher]

What I find puzzling is who got that shot of Enterprise with all the the bridge crew? It's like the camera was able to see through the hull to film that scene.

Through the overhead dome, actually. I think the idea is that it was transparent. Which was a handy way of establishing right off the bat where the bridge was located and giving a sense of the ship's enormous scale. If this had been audiences' first look at Star Trek, it would've been a spectacular beginning.

And "Mendez" actually asked about where this impossible footage was coming from, with the eventual answer being that it was the Talosians' telepathic transmissions.

 

[Marsden]

So the Talosians created Star Trek and not Gene Roddenberry.

Another thing he stole/took credit for.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

So the Talosians created Star Trek and not Gene Roddenberry.

Another thing he stole/took credit for.

On the other hand the Talosian don't need money to acquire things, they can make it look like they are giving you money and you won't know the difference until it is too late.

 

[johnnybear]

When I was young the scene where Commodore Mendez disappears used to leave me cold! Especially if I was going upstairs to bed in the dark!
JB

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

When I was young the scene where Commodore Mendez disappears used to leave me cold! Especially if I was going upstairs to bed in the dark!
JB

You didn't know it was a make believe?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

It's kind of funny that, in "The Menagerie," we watch a TV show about people watching a TV show-- and the double remove doesn't stop us from getting into it. It's the only episode of Star Trek that Kirk ever saw.

It was nice of them to include music, commercial breaks, and a cliffhanger, too.

 

[kirkfan]

It's kind of funny that, in "The Menagerie," we watch a TV show about people watching a TV show-- and the double remove doesn't stop us from getting into it. It's the only episode of Star Trek that Kirk ever saw.

It was nice of them to include music, commercial breaks, and a cliffhanger, too.

I am not sure Kirk saw the commercial breaks as well...

 

[FormerLurker]

Yeah, he was watching the home video version.

 

[Christopher]

^I though it was the streaming video version.

 

[Marsden]

It's kind of funny that, in "The Menagerie," we watch a TV show about people watching a TV show-- and the double remove doesn't stop us from getting into it. It's the only episode of Star Trek that Kirk ever saw.

It was nice of them to include music, commercial breaks, and a cliffhanger, too.

I believe there was an ad for Promise margarine

http://youtu.be/n3wf717fKFE