The Matrix Revolutions

[T'Baio]

Personally, I thought The Matrix Revolutions, overall, was a terrible movie. The only thing I really enjoyed about it was the siege on and defense of Zion. I was thinking something, though. When they find out that Morpheus and Niobe et al were approaching the gate, many were celebratory because the ship had an EMP pulse that could disable all the squids. My question is, and this may have been brought up, I don't remember, where were all the other hover ships that presumably had EMP's, because every one we've seen had one? They were trying to get all the ships back to Zion...where'd they all go? And why wouldn't the city itself have an EMP?

To this day, I don't believe that the Wachowski's planned a trilogy. The first film is just so different than the sequels, and seemed quite final. It seemed to have all it's shit figured out, while the sequels did not. Reloaded tried to explain away all the inconsistencies with "hmm...upgrades," which was pretty lame. Interesting ideas were brought up, and then totally disregarded. They end one movie with this compelling, though logically muddled, philosophical speech, and explain it away in the next with, basically, "that character is full of shit." Nothing means anything.

Reloaded continued the tradition of excellent fight and action scenes, and has that going for it, but it's obvious even those ideas ran out of steam by Revolutions, with the noted exception of the siege on Zion.

Overall, what a terrible trilogy.

 

[Hermiod]

I'm struggling to remember here. I could swear there's a line or a scene in there, perhaps in Reloaded, where they said that someone - strongly intimated to be the man Smith has taken control of - detonated his ship's EMP while it was in formation with the others awaiting the machine's attack, disabling the entire fleet. The Sentinels then attacked the downed ships and destroyed them before they could be restored.

Bane's Wikipedia entry suggests this is the case.

 

[Gaith]

Oh yeah, it was Bane, no doubt about it. And the city itself didn't have an EMP because 1) they never thought they'd need one and 2) it posed major difficulties for the humans also.

 

[Hermiod]

^Yeah, exactly what would happen in the movie would happen - they would knock out their own defences at the same time.

All it would take is a small second wave to kill everyone left.

 

[T'Baio]

That's right, Bane disabled them all. So...they had all the hover ships on the front line? Seems like bad planning. And they don't have one EMP in Zion? Sure it would disable everything there, but you think it might be wise last resort. It always seemed like one of those convenient plot strokes just to ratchet up tension.

 

[Hermiod]

That's right, Bane disabled them all. So...they had all the hover ships on the front line? Seems like bad planning. And they don't have one EMP in Zion? Sure it would disable everything there, but you think it might be wise last resort. It always seemed like one of those convenient plot strokes just to ratchet up tension.

We saw what happened when the Hammer's EMP went off. The result was disastrous.

I think, in general, they were completely unprepared for the magnitude of the attack. It's said at one point in the film that the Machines sent exactly one Sentinel for every man, woman and child in Zion. No way could they have had enough ships to defend against such an assault.

 

[Myasishchev]

The Matrix Revolutions was godawful, yes. The last fight between Neo and Smith was pretty cool, although all it did was make me wish it were a Superman movie.

I hated every scene in Zion, though--I don't know how you enjoyed that interminable sequence, but different strokes, I suppose.

You know, at the end of Reloaded, the strong indication is that Zion ain't real either and crazy shit was about to be revealed/explained in Revolutions. But instead it just turns out Neo is a wireless router, so Revolutions retroactively made Reloaded terrible, too.

 

[Hermiod]

I'm one of the rare ones that thinks Reloaded is a fantastic movie, but even I can't really defend Revolutions.

And yes, I really, honestly did say Revolutions and not Reloaded despite what Trent Roman is going to say in... THE FUTURE!!!!

 

[Gaith]

You know, at the end of Reloaded, the strong indication is that Zion ain't real either

No, that's an incorrect fan theory that has no basis in the films themselves. Like it or not, it seems that there may be some degree of magic in the series' real world.

 

[Myasishchev]

Oh, I know it's incorrent. But at the end of Reloaded, that was the obvious conclusion, because the alternative was stupid.

 

[Trent Roman]

@Hermiod: You might want to revise that statement.

But yes, assuming you mean what I think you mean, I too thought Reloaded was a great film, but was sorely dissapointed when Revolutions seemed to abandon everything the second film had set up. I loved that Reloaded took the life-as-computer-program metaphor to the next level as life-as-mathematical-equation, I loved the kind of Mesoamerican cyclical mythology that displaces the trite messianic storyline, and it had, in my opinion, the best actions sequences of the trilogy, really making use of the Matrix's flexible physical laws (most of the fighting in Revolutions, though well-rendered, could have come from any generic sci-fi flick). The free will vs. casuality argument embodied by the Merovingian was genuinely exciting... but, like everything else, fizzled.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Hermiod]

@Hermiod: You might want to revise that statement.

See ? My prediction was right, I said you would think I said Reloaded when what I actually said was Revolutions. Fear my powers of precognition!

 

[Dream]

The Matrix Revolutions was very disappointing. It's not even as good as Return of the Jedi!

Like the Star Wars OT trilogy, it was very obvious that the Matrix was never meant to be a trilogy. However SW did a better job at making it's three movies connect. Neo, Trinity and Morpheus almost disappear in the third movie. New characters like The Merovingian that was so interesting in Reloaded only made a cameo in Revolutions. There were too many characters that we just didn't care about. I also hated how the war ended. A peace treaty was dumb. I rather the humans won or even lost.

The fight scenes and visual effects were great, but there wasn't enough story.

 

[Myasishchev]

I'm still baffled to this day that people don't like Return of the Jedi. It's a great movie. Yeah, it has Ewoks. At least they have a cool song.

 

[Dream]

I'm still baffled to this day that people don't like Return of the Jedi. It's a great movie. Yeah, it has Ewoks. At least they have a cool song.

I think ROTJ is pretty good even if it isn't as fun as ANH or as well made as ESB. It has pacing problems and the damn Ewoks are annoying, but it also has some of the greatest scenes in the entire saga like Yoda's death, Luke being Jedi, Vader and Luke's confrontation, and the final space battle.

 

[Kegg]

I think the Wachkowskis always intended to do sequels but didn't have a clear idea as to what those sequels would be. I mean, yeah, Neo would win! He'd beat the system! People would talk philosophy! Kung fu!

But then getting that and writing two feature length movies around that is hard.

Oh, I know it's incorrent. But at the end of Reloaded, that was the obvious conclusion, because the alternative was stupid.

Correct. Reloaded had its problems (I remember a hilarious internet comic story where a guy had a friend who spoke mostly in catchphrases he learned from movies, and it was with horror they reacted when - given the opportunity - he'd just blather the Architect's speech from memory); but it at least toyed with the concepts from the first film and seemed willing to undermine them.

It had some questions and maybe even a degree of an attempt to make sense. Revolutions had crap all.

I'm still baffled to this day that people don't like Return of the Jedi. It's a great movie. Yeah, it has Ewoks. At least they have a cool song.

Even the Luke/Vader/Emperor scenes have problems; they meander a little and aren't as tight or focused as the equivalent confrontation in ESB. ROTJ is sort of winded compared to the earlier films, frankly, though I still do sort of like it.

 

[Admiral_Young]

The Matrix sequels were definitely not what I thought they were going to be...Reloaded was all right but then Revolutions was just disappointing. I agree with the poster regarding the final Neo/Smith fight it just made me wish that this had been a Superman movie. I think a Brothers W Superman film would be crazzzzyyy to watch. I do recall hearing an interview with them saying that they hoped that if the first one was successful that they planned on doing sequels. I think in the documentary Matrix Revisited (which is an awesome behind the scenes doc) that they talk about always intending doing a trilogy. It could be one of those Lucas retcon things with them.

 

[Gaith]

Even the Luke/Vader/Emperor scenes have problems; they meander a little and aren't as tight or focused as the equivalent confrontation in ESB. ROTJ is sort of winded compared to the earlier films, frankly, though I still do sort of like it.

Hear, hear. Spending nearly an hour getting out of Tatooine is just madness. ROTJ could really use a fan edit to chop out 45 min. to an hour, and thus make it a worthy coda to ANH/ESB.

 

[Dream]

Even the Luke/Vader/Emperor scenes have problems; they meander a little and aren't as tight or focused as the equivalent confrontation in ESB. ROTJ is sort of winded compared to the earlier films, frankly, though I still do sort of like it.

The one thing I really liked about ROTJ was that we finally see villains that weren't the Empire. It was interesting seeing crime lords in the Star Wars setting. Jabba was scum and driven by money, which made him a very different villain from Vader.

But it shouldn't have taken so much of the movie to deal with him. ROTJ should've began with Luke arriving at the Palace, with Leia and the droids already captured.

The Matrix Revoltuions sort of has the same problem with Neo trapped in the train station. It took forever to get going.

 

[T'Baio]

I do recall hearing an interview with them saying that they hoped that if the first one was successful that they planned on doing sequels. I think in the documentary Matrix Revisited (which is an awesome behind the scenes doc) that they talk about always intending doing a trilogy. It could be one of those Lucas retcon things with them.

In that documentary, the siblings never refer to doing a trilogy in any of the footage that was shot "then," during the filming of The Matrix. In all the footage shot "now," which was long after the release, everyone else, ie Joel Silver and other producers, talk about them talking about always planning sequels. One Warner Brothers exec says they told him the entire story and showed him all three scripts from day one. On that, I call total bullshit.