• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

The Mark of Gideon?

Status
Not open for further replies.
If the episode was being made today the replica Enterprise would be a virtual reality model

...A concept that no doubt will soon seem as dated as Flash Gordon's rocketry.

If the episode were being made tomorrow, the replica ship would be manufactured out of physical matter by appropriate printing devices, and nobody would see anything objectionable in the fact of it being 100% accurate. Indeed, if there were the slightest fault in the replica, the audiences would go "Come on, that's unrealistic - why would their printer fail just when Kirk needs it to fail and expose the plot?"...

Timo Saloniemi
 
If this episode was being made right now, the replica of the ship would probably be explicitly said to be a holodeck or VR re-creation, simply so people would bloody well stop arguing over whether or not there could possibly be room for a full-sized version.
 
If it's a holodeck, then how or why are the Gideonites seen through the window? Did they allow those few Gideonits onto the holodeck or did they build the holodeck with windows or transparent walls?
 
Nah, those are just the stagehands who maintain the Enterprise prison mockup. Obviously the Guideonites couldn't spare the space or resources to recreate the entire vessel, so they just knocked up a few rooms and a stretch of corridor then pumped the Captain full of drugs so he wouldn't recognise the difference. Hanging different wall signs and changing the machinery on the corridor walls gave the illusion of different decks, but it kept those stagehands busy! Of course, to Mr Spock's undrugged mind the fakery of the prison was obvious within seconds.
 
You mean the man in the grip of the exotic fever they injected into him while he apparently was unconscious after the beam-down? Between his illness, whatever extra drugs he was given, and Odona, Kirk wouldn't be particularly attentive.

Kirk wasn't injected with an "exotic fever", nor is there any indication that he was injected with anything at all. He was unconscious for 9 minutes while they took a blood sample from him. As for rendering him unconscious in the first place, drugs aren't the only way to do it, especially in the Star Trek universe (a phaser on stun or a single magical "karate chop" to the back, neck, or shoulder seem to be the easiest ways). Furthermore, there is nothing to indicate that he was given any drugs, and there is their admitted medical ineptitude (because they have no need for medicine) to suggest that they didn't.

In any event, this episode was absurd for more than one reason. For one thing, the Enterprise mockup wasn't even needed for their plan (which makes it a colossal waste of time/resources, even if we pretend it is plausible for them to have built it in the first place). They could have beamed Kirk to a small locked room with the girl already in there and have accomplished the same thing. In fact, it probably would have accomplished it faster, given the heightened sense of danger of being in a small locked room as compared to simply wondering where everyone went on your huge ship. It is well known that people tend to bond quickly in dangerous situations.

For another thing, they hoped Kirk would fall in love with the girl and thus want to stay because of her. However, the plan for her was to die in short order. So what did they think the incentive for Kirk to stay would be once she was dead?

And of course, the idea that they could have built a mockup perfect enough to fool someone who has been on the Enterprise practically 24/7 for the past 3 years is quite a reach. The only way they could do that is if they had "replicator" type technology, which can scan the Enterprise on a molecular level and perfectly recreate it on a molecular level.

A mere optical scanning process of the interior surfaces (pretending for a moment that they somehow had enough access to the Enterprise to do such a thing) wouldn't provide nearly enough information to create a copy which would fool someone who is intimately familiar with the original. To give one of many possible examples, the foam in the captain's chair wouldn't feel right, because it wouldn't be broken in in the same way as the original, and there wouldn't even be any way for them to make sure the foam was even to the same manufacturing specifications as the original (not that that would help much, because the original is no longer new, and thus feels different than new). Plus, a lot of things were functional, and optical scanning can't tell you how the internal electronics/mechanisms are designed, and if you were to just wing it, you'd inevitably only end up with an approximation, which couldn't be expected to fool Kirk.

I have several NES controllers, and even though they are all the same make and model (Nintendo Controller Model No. : NES-004), they all have a different feel to the D-pad, which means I have a preference for some of them over others, and a strong preference for one of them in particular. On top of that, they have different levels of wear and tear (scratches, scuffs, dings). I even have a pair of NOS (new old stock) ones that I've only used long enough to test functionality, and their D-pads feel different from each other too. That's just the inherent nature of the manufacturing process, i.e., it is impossible to make two items which are truly identical without sci-fi molecular-level replication technology.
 
To give one of many possible examples, the foam in the captain's chair wouldn't feel right, because it wouldn't be broken in in the same way as the original, and there wouldn't even be any way for them to make sure the foam was even to the same manufacturing specifications as the original (not that that would help much, because the original is no longer new, and thus feels different than new).

I reach. I know Homer was pissed when his ass groove got ruined in his couch.


Maybe the very medical ineptitude you mentioned is what prevented them from just taking a sample without the kidnapping?

Maybe the Enterprise mock up was not for the benefit of Kirk at all but the inducement of the Gideonite victim was to be able to run around an open area and not bump into anyone, the only price being death.
 
Maybe the very medical ineptitude you mentioned is what prevented them from just taking a sample without the kidnapping?

I'm not sure what your point is. Kidnapping was part of their plan, because they wanted Kirk to fall for the girl in the hopes that he would willingly stick around so they could continue to use his blood for a long time to make the disease serum. However, like I already mentioned, that plan was ridiculous because the plan for the girl was for her to die in short order, so what did they think the incentive for Kirk to voluntarily stick around would be after she went tits up?

Maybe the Enterprise mock up was not for the benefit of Kirk at all but the inducement of the Gideonite victim was to be able to run around an open area and not bump into anyone, the only price being death.

If that were the case, it would be a hell of a lot easier and cheaper just to build a large generic room; 4 walls, a roof, a floor, and a locked door. Even if we pretend that it were plausible for them to build an accurate mockup of the Enterprise, doing so served no logical purpose whatsoever; no part of their plan depended on having a mockup of the Enterprise. For that matter, no part of their plan was even remotely relevant to having a mockup of the Enterprise. It was a completely arbitrary decision by the writer, i.e., it wasn't organic to the story in any way.

I suspect the idea to get a 2-for-1 deal out of the Enterprise set came first, and then someone built a story around it, except, they forgot to connect all the dots.
 
I thought that was obvious. The "Prisoner-style ep where Kirk is alone on the Ent and nothing makes sense to him" one. Like the flag one, the Nazi one, the Hippie one, etc. Concepts in search of a story, since they had to complete 48 min. of tv per week.
 
You mean the man in the grip of the exotic fever they injected into him while he apparently was unconscious after the beam-down? Between his illness, whatever extra drugs he was given, and Odona, Kirk wouldn't be particularly attentive.

Kirk wasn't injected with an "exotic fever", nor is there any indication that he was injected with anything at all.

A possibly necessary disclaimer here: what I'm trying to do is inserting sense into an episode that indeed is utter nonsense to start with. It's just a hobby of mine, nothing more. But with that in mind...

Kirk's hand is hurt. The Gideonites say it's because they took a pathogen sample clumsily, due to their alleged lack of medical knowledge. But how could Kirk's pathogen as such infect anybody? Kirk has spilled his blood (and supposedly other body fluids as well) on and potentially in many people already, with nary a concern - the disease clearly doesn't result in infections without some sort of extra help.

The plot makes significantly more sense if the medical goal here is to somehow activate Kirk's disease and then wait for it to grow in strength enough to infect Odona. A means of keeping Kirk not just captive but also active and interactive would be called for, then.

Furthermore, there is nothing to indicate that he was given any drugs, and there is their admitted medical ineptitude (because they have no need for medicine) to suggest that they didn't.
But if we assume it was drugs, the episode makes more sense. So where's the drawback?

They could have beamed Kirk to a small locked room with the girl already in there and have accomplished the same thing.
Definitely so, even in this "activated disease" scenario. What the replica accomplishes (besides making this bottle show visually more interesting and the concept more alien) is confusing and delaying Kirk's attempts at finding a way out. So our argument could be that in addition to finding out about Kirk's disease, the Gideonites also found out about his resourcefulness, and rightly prepared against it. If the delaying act failed, the locked room could always be applied next.

For another thing, they hoped Kirk would fall in love with the girl and thus want to stay because of her.
This isn't really a required part of the plan at all.

And of course, the idea that they could have built a mockup perfect enough to fool someone who has been on the Enterprise practically 24/7 for the past 3 years is quite a reach. The only way they could do that is if they had "replicator" type technology, which can scan the Enterprise on a molecular level and perfectly recreate it on a molecular level.
The thing is, this was nonsense in the 1960s, but an accepted Trek conceit in the 1980s and quickly approaching reality as of the 21st century. All it really takes is the additional step of making this less than Kirk's best day at work ever, and the concept that Kirk has his horrible disease activated delivers that part nicely enough.

(pretending for a moment that they somehow had enough access to the Enterprise to do such a thing)
They had lots of access to things way beyond pure knowledge. They got Kirk to come and "negotiate" with them! Given that Kirk almost inevitably was the only starship captain in existence suited for their needs (not too many starship captains around in TOS, or so goes the claim), this speaks of direct influence over Starfleet decisions. The full specs of Kirk's ship are peanuts in comparison.

Ultimately, what saves the concept of the episode is that the Gideonites are officially nuts. They have religious hang-ups about birth control and health care, and consider themselves driven into a corner. They can be allowed just about any approach to their problem, really - the more nonsensical, the truer it will sound.

Timo Saloniemi
 
(not too many starship captains around in TOS, or so goes the claim),
Timo Saloniemi

Although perhaps not all actively in the middle of their missions at once, weren't there 12 at this time, at least of the Constitution-class?
 
Hard to see how the Gideonites had a population problem given that they were the worst dressed race in the galaxy... should have been a big turn off for any potential mate.

Wow, I just disgusted myself there.
 
For all we know, this was the most extreme form of birth control their beliefs allowed. Although there still was much strife over whether velcro or zippers were the greater hindrance, and which should be favored over the other.

Timo Saloniemi
 
(not too many starship captains around in TOS, or so goes the claim),
Timo Saloniemi

Although perhaps not all actively in the middle of their missions at once, weren't there 12 at this time, at least of the Constitution-class?

Kirk said "there are only twelve like it in the fleet", which suggests there were 13: the Enterprise plus the twelve that were like it.

But I'm sure there were dozens of other classes, with lots of ships in each class. So there may not be a lot of captains of Constitution-class ships, but captains in general? Yes, there would be.
 
Starship captains being a rare breed is mainly a "Court Martial" thing, with Commodore Stone saying things like "not one man in a million" or "no starship captain has ever stood trial before (even though it's standard procedure at loss of ship)".

Even if there are a hundred starship commanders, all this does is make the coincidence of finding Kirk one order of magnitude smaller or so - when the disease still is considered exceedingly rare, and there's a definite time window for the negotiations with Gideon, etc. The only real question remaining is, did the Gideonites specifically request for Kirk to be sent, or did Starfleet send Kirk knowing what Gideon needed?

Timo Saloniemi
 
Kirk said "there are only twelve like it in the fleet", which suggests there were 13: the Enterprise plus the twelve that were like it.
That would suggest that the Enterprise isn't "in the fleet."
 
One thing speaking against a completely virtual construct is Spock's beam-down. If the ship were a simulation, wouldn't it be centered on Kirk and thus moving with him, rather than constantly projecting all the 300 meters of the empty ship? If so, the spot that used to be "Transporter Room" when Kirk beamed down would no longer be that when Spock did. Not unless the builders planned for, that is, planned on, random other people beaming in at random times...

Timo Saloniemi
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top