The Maquis - where do you stand?
- Thread starter PTRACER
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If I'd lived in a part of the Demilitarized Zone that had been given back to the Cardies I'd join the Marquis. But if I was from elsewhere I wouldn't join, maybe I'd help out in a Kassidy Yates sort of way if I were in the same situation.
My opinion is not up there. I am highly opposed to their methods. At the same time I am highly opposed to what the Federation and the Cardassians BOTH did in that treaty, treating their people like chess/kotra pawns. I would be very, very loud in my opposition, possibly start a group lobbying for repeal and punishing (at the ballot box) the politicians that sold their people down the river (yes, I know, offensive phrase but what the Feddies did to their citizens really WAS that offensive in my book), but not violent or condoning of violence.
Sympathizer all the way.
They are terrorists. Enemies to peace.
I might add that they willingly remained in the DMZ with full knowledge they would be under Cardassian rule. They could have moved - in the Federation there should be hundreds of suitable worlds. They stay, they reap the consequences.
The opposite of peace is war. The actions of the Maquis risked war with Cardassia (though with their racial hatred of Cardassians, that may have been what the Maquis wanted anyway). The peace treaty must be maintained; the colonists can move, the treaty cannot. There are larger concerns at work here.
I might add that they willingly remained in the DMZ with full knowledge they would be under Cardassian rule. They could have moved - in the Federation there should be hundreds of suitable worlds. They stay, they reap the consequences.
The opposite of peace is war. The actions of the Maquis risked war with Cardassia (though with their racial hatred of Cardassians, that may have been what the Maquis wanted anyway). The peace treaty must be maintained; the colonists can move, the treaty cannot. There are larger concerns at work here.
The problem with interpreting the situation is understanding the status of those living on the Cardassian side of the DMZ.
It was made very clear in the compromise made at Dorvan V that they (at least the inhabitants of that planet), had relinquished their status as Federation citizens and then fell under Cardassian rule. Nothing was said further about the status of the other colonies on the Cardassian side of the DMZ, so we can only make assumptions as to their status -- yet in DS9, all of a sudden, the Maquis, made up of colonists from within the DMZ started to be referred to as Federation citizens, and the responsibility of the Federation.
The legal status of the members of the Maquis is never made clear -- but if other colonies within the DMZ followed the example of Dorvan V and also relinquished their Federation citizenship, the Federation had no business involving themselves in an internal uprising of those humans living within Cardassian territory.
It seems the Federation and Cardassians regarded those living in the DMZ as "Federation Citizens" when it suited them for the purposes of thwarting Maquis action within the DMZ, even though it is made clear that at least one planet (and likely others) relinquished such citizenship.
I sympathize with the Maquis and their cause because it was clear that the Central Command was supplying weapons to their colonists within the zone. As far as I'm concerned, the Maquis had every right to defend their homes against armed Cardassian invaders. The colonists within the DMZ, having relinquished their citizenship, were under no obligation to recognize any treaty made by the Federation -- and if the Central Command was assisting Cardassian colonists within the zone, the Human colonists were in the right defending themselves.
They made a mistake, however, and lost moral points with me, by attacking the Bok'Nor at a Federation starbase and kidnapping a Cardassian Gul from that same starbase. They should have taken action against the Bok'Nor within the DMZ only. Had it not been for those actions on DS9, and it were up to me, I'd have left the Maquis to do what they wanted in the DMZ.
The Maquis further upped the ante when they used biogenic weapons on Cardassian colonies.
I sympathize completely with the cause the Maquis was fighting for --- the problem I have with them, however, is that they took the fight to the Federation with their actions on DS9 and crossed the line with biogenic weapons against the Cardassians.
I don't think that's any choice at all, personally, between having to leave your home for political reasons or accept crushing, "Stalinist" rule. I blame the weak politicians of the Federation for actually agreeing to Cardassian demands on that one. No doubt Central Command has no problem playing with their people's lives--they knew the Federation would go easy on any incoming Cardassians. But they knew the opportunity to come down on those former Federation worlds with an iron fist. They had to know they were getting the better end of the deal by far. And the Feddies were too stupid to see it, and walked right into it.
Yet for agreeing to it, the Federation became just as bad.
The Maquis attacking nonmilitary targets, using WMDs, and crossing the border to commit terrorist attacks is WAY over the line, and I would have absolutely nothing to do with such tactics.
Being a BIG political thorn in the side of the jackasses that pulled a stunt like that, though? Oh yeah. Peaceful civil disobedience in some fashion would not be out of the question, either.
I am not decidet...I agree with NG in the way, that I also don´t like the methods they use...on the other hand I can understand that they are angry about all this.
I do think its not the best threaty that the Federation agreed too...on the other hand I also can see why the Federation made the treaty... and maybe there really was no other solution, than to do it that way.
Also I think the settlers are a bit too stubborn... ok, leaving home is a bad thing, but sometimes maybe a personal sacrefice for the greater good is necessary... if they would get help settle somewhere else, well... that can become home as well.... and with the sacred places and such.... if one has strong spirituality, should it not be enough to carry it within you, no matter where you are?
So..hmm...not decidet...they all have points I agree with and then some I do not agree with... from all sides also the settlers sides should have come more will to find a proper solution I guess.
TerokNor
I do think its not the best threaty that the Federation agreed too...on the other hand I also can see why the Federation made the treaty... and maybe there really was no other solution, than to do it that way.
Also I think the settlers are a bit too stubborn... ok, leaving home is a bad thing, but sometimes maybe a personal sacrefice for the greater good is necessary... if they would get help settle somewhere else, well... that can become home as well.... and with the sacred places and such.... if one has strong spirituality, should it not be enough to carry it within you, no matter where you are?
So..hmm...not decidet...they all have points I agree with and then some I do not agree with... from all sides also the settlers sides should have come more will to find a proper solution I guess.
TerokNor
they are terrorist pigs and deserved the outcome they got, they should be looked at just as george bush did with his deck cards, he had his ace's of terrorists. all maquis should be annihilated. they are fighting against the greater good. take them all out back and do with them what one would do with the old family dog. these people betrayed there government, and left its protection. thats why the dominion came around to clean cardassian space up.
I think the treaty was a prime example of the Federation's pussyboy foreign policy. The Federation is supposedly the USA of the Alpha Quadrant and has no practical/functional need to always be accommodating and concessionary.
OK, the previous Cardassian war was a stalemate, and cost a lot of lives. But the Federation should not at all have conceded territory, and if anything should not have allowed Federation citizens to live under Cardassian rule.
I can imagine the group of native Americans that Picard tried to remove getting beaten up and harassed by the Cardassians too.
OK, the previous Cardassian war was a stalemate, and cost a lot of lives. But the Federation should not at all have conceded territory, and if anything should not have allowed Federation citizens to live under Cardassian rule.
I can imagine the group of native Americans that Picard tried to remove getting beaten up and harassed by the Cardassians too.
The Federation is not the USA, frankly...it's the UN/European Union. One look at their flag is enough to make that clear. 
Well, yeah, at least in terms of the UN flag. Which is why, as a European I find the whole 'UFP appeasing the evil Cardies' aspect of the whole DMZ debacle so tiresome. True, it was a frakup of the lowest order on the part of the Feds but that whole appeasement trope has been done to death. Like political correctness or fascism, it is a word that is overused and under-analysed.
As of the Maquis? My natural inclination would be to consider and condemn them as unprincipled terrorists who caused chaos and bloodshed for the citizens of Cardassia and therefore needed to be stopped. However the shameful and cowardly provocation of both the Central Command and the Obsidian Order (assassins dressed as Bajoran Monks, poisoning food replicators and so on) can excuse the guerrilla war fought by the settlers of the DMZ.
Like NG, I shall not be voting in the poll, mostly because my views are very similar but also because I'm not going to rush to condemn one side or the other. There is blood on the scale for both sides (if we discount the Dominion massacre) and in that the conflict along the Demilitarized Zone is all to true to life...
As of the Maquis? My natural inclination would be to consider and condemn them as unprincipled terrorists who caused chaos and bloodshed for the citizens of Cardassia and therefore needed to be stopped. However the shameful and cowardly provocation of both the Central Command and the Obsidian Order (assassins dressed as Bajoran Monks, poisoning food replicators and so on) can excuse the guerrilla war fought by the settlers of the DMZ.
Like NG, I shall not be voting in the poll, mostly because my views are very similar but also because I'm not going to rush to condemn one side or the other. There is blood on the scale for both sides (if we discount the Dominion massacre) and in that the conflict along the Demilitarized Zone is all to true to life...
The Federation is not the USA, frankly...it's the UN/European Union. One look at their flag is enough to make that clear.
And each Admiral in starfleet is a country in Europe.
So do you think in time every country will join Europe?
I'm unsure how I feel about them.
On one hand, I agree that they had the right to defend their homes from Cardassian invasion. The Cardassians were clearly in the wrong when they armed their settlers in the zone. The UFP was also clearly in the wrong when it allowed it's own citizens to fall under Cardassian rule.
I also agree that the Maquis had the right to secede from the Federation and attempt to set up their own independent state. They were clearly unhappy with what their government did to them and had no political recourse at their disposal to fix the problem.
On the other hand, their tactics led directly to the Dominion War, which caused massive bloodshed for the entire Alpha Quadrant, not just in the DMZ.
The Maquis would often proclaim that they wanted nothing to do with the Federation, Eddington's comparison of the UFP to the Borg is a prime example. However, they often expected, and at times downright demanded, that the Federation come to their rescue. They never seemed to understand that the Federation had much larger things to worry about.
So, how would I vote in this poll.
On one hand, I agree that they had the right to defend their homes from Cardassian invasion. The Cardassians were clearly in the wrong when they armed their settlers in the zone. The UFP was also clearly in the wrong when it allowed it's own citizens to fall under Cardassian rule.
I also agree that the Maquis had the right to secede from the Federation and attempt to set up their own independent state. They were clearly unhappy with what their government did to them and had no political recourse at their disposal to fix the problem.
On the other hand, their tactics led directly to the Dominion War, which caused massive bloodshed for the entire Alpha Quadrant, not just in the DMZ.
The Maquis would often proclaim that they wanted nothing to do with the Federation, Eddington's comparison of the UFP to the Borg is a prime example. However, they often expected, and at times downright demanded, that the Federation come to their rescue. They never seemed to understand that the Federation had much larger things to worry about.
So, how would I vote in this poll.
- Not Option One, since I feel that their tactics are both foolish and immoral.
- Not Option Two, since I do have sympathy for them, but the Federation can't simply leave them alone - the Maquis' actions directly affect the security of the UFP after all.
- Not Option Three, since I'm conflicted about them being terrorists and criminals. In some ways they are, but in others they're just fighting for their rights.
- Not Option Four either. I'm clearly not neutral.
I find the sympathy for the Maquis position here somewhat baffling. Basically, to help prevent war, they were simply being asked to move from one part of the Federation to another. To find this unreasonable would place the value of arbitrary "land rights"(borders and territories shift all the time, look at Earth's history) over the value of promoting peace.
Basically, the Maquis are spoiled children who were willing to fight and drag the Federation into war rather than pack some bags and move onto some other nice planets in the Federation.
Basically, the Maquis are spoiled children who were willing to fight and drag the Federation into war rather than pack some bags and move onto some other nice planets in the Federation.
Those worlds were always contested territory even before those colonists settled them, and their proximity to Cardassia only supports this. The settlers were a bunch of arrogant jerks who didn't give a damn about all the Fleet personnel who were dying for their sakes and continued not to give a sh*t about anyone but themselves by starting up their own private war. Even when the Feds stopped the Cardassian shipments of weapons they went off to keep up the fighting when they could have just settled it then and there.
With the Feds, all the way. Sometimes the underdogs are really just a bunch of uppity brats who deserve what they get. I know the "The Government is BAD" self-righteous types will disagree, but they can't stand the idea of the "Big Picture".
With the Feds, all the way. Sometimes the underdogs are really just a bunch of uppity brats who deserve what they get. I know the "The Government is BAD" self-righteous types will disagree, but they can't stand the idea of the "Big Picture".
IF a world government ever occurs, whether one likes the idea of it happening or not, I think Trek has it right by putting the political capital in Paris and what seems to be the cultural capital in San Francisco. Good, bad, or indifferent, that's where I think it really would happen.
Bingo. Deriding the right to one's property as "infantile" is just another example of said mentality.
Plus, we have no evidence of exactly WHEN those worlds came under dispute, WHEN the Cardassians started making noise. We cannot prove who actually claimed them first. If the Cardassians made a claim BEFORE the Federation ever did (and by that I mean STATING their claim through the right channels, not just thinking it to themselves), then yeah, the Federation shouldn't have settled there--but if the Cardassians did NOT make such a claim and the Federation got there first, too bad, so sad...the Cardassians should have just had to put up with it or else.
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