The Maple Leaf Lounge

[Owain Taggart]

^ Oh, no doubt about that. She and other people like her such as King thrive on attention, which is all the more reason to restrict them. Life has consequences. She chose to sow the seeds of discord, and as such she should live with those consequences. She made her bed, she should maybe lie down in it. The only reason she should ever be released is by serving time, and she doesn't strike me as someone who shows remorse for her actions.

 

[DEWLine]

*stares at Warped9 in some degree of shock, horror and 'where's the nearest exit?'*

I have no trust in the Convoy Coup Crowd - yes, I am calling them that because that's what they're still dreaming of - and friends of mine who live and/or work in Centretown and Lowertown had to cope with the antics of that group for the better part of a month. If Trump were running for Canadian office, these are people who would vote for him in a heartbeat for the same reasons as the USAers who've been doing so: he gives them social permission for their worldview and deeds. As if he wasn't already egging them on via his press releases and his front-person's tweets.

I knew for decades, from at least high school onward, that it - fascism - can happen here as easily or as painfully as anywhere else. And I am absolutely not seeing it in Justin Trudeau.

I do see the potential in Pollievre, Trost, Lewis, Bergen, Ford, Oosterhoff, Moe, Kenney, Jean, and so many others. So I do not yet feel safe enough in my own country, and I know I won't be able to flee to anywhere if the worst happens.

 

[Owain Taggart]

And I am absolutely not seeing it in Justin Trudeau.

Yeah, I don't see it either. I see someone doing their best to govern a Country in the midst of a pandemic. My personal feeling is that we should be careful how we use the word as it carries heavy implications. There have been real tyrants who have caused much damage in the world. Mask mandates and mandatory vaccinations are not tyranny. They are a World Health Organization guideline in an unprecedented moment in history, in which many Countries are following because they are all the affected in the same way.

 

[Marc]

ford goes to see the Lt. Gov this afternoon and the writs will drop for the provincial election tomorrow and we'll be off to the electoral races.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/pr...ay-afternoon-to-kick-off-june-2-election.html

this time around personally have more at stake as my wife is a constitutioncy assistant for our local MPP who's a government back bencher and the polling is showing a very tight race between him and the liberal candidate. If he looses she's out of a job and things get fun for us (chances of her getting another job are pretty much zero - she has cereberal palsy and very few places would accept her work pace, for me - I've been out of the main IT game too long, my eyesight is crap, don't drive which is why I've never really found anything long term here).

At the end of the day ford has made some stupid decisions (we need the 413 like we need a nuclear strike) but he hasn't been as bad as he could be especially with the covid reponse (yes kenney and moe I'm looking at you) and those who need ODSP to survive as still getting kicked in the teeth.

Sure some people have blamed him for the 6th wave spike but fuck me, the vaccination rate for the 3rd shot is 66% so I wonder how many of the complainants have gone out and gotten 3rd shot, make sure the their kids have had it and still wear masks.

But who else is there? Can't stand horvath and think she would be fucking disaster and del duca is reheat of a wynne left over. Think the liberal screwed up big time. They needed a clean skin and didn't chose one as leader.

And the big policies are joke.

we've heard
a) privatise for profit long term care. Claim that it will be $2bil a year to buy them out but I expect that's just the tip of the iceburg - you need to factor in buying out the infrastructure, the staff and need to compensate them lose of ongoing profits. I suspect it will would wind up in the courts. Cheaper move would be to employ more inspectors and enforce the existing regulations.

b) cutting the HST on meals under $16. If people want to save money don't eat out as much - the HST savings only won't really amount to much - learn to cook, if you hate having to choose meals and shop, there's the various box companies which yes can be expensive but sometimes can work out well and about $10 - $12 per head per meal.

c) $1 bus fares for 18 months will achieve what? A better approach is to increase funding the municipalities for transit services. Transit could be free and people still wouldn't use if there's is no bus for people to catch. At the end of the day the biggest motivator for people taking cars is convenience. Leave when you want, don't worry about the person seated next smelling they have washed in a week and do the trip in half the time.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

ford goes to see the Lt. Gov this afternoon and the writs will drop for the provincial election tomorrow and we'll be off to the electoral races.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/pr...ay-afternoon-to-kick-off-june-2-election.html

this time around personally have more at stake as my wife is a constitutioncy assistant for our local MPP who's a government back bencher and the polling is showing a very tight race between him and the liberal candidate. If he looses she's out of a job and things get fun for us (chances of her getting another job are pretty much zero - she has cereberal palsy and very few places would accept her work pace, for me - I've been out of the main IT game too long, my eyesight is crap, don't drive which is why I've never really found anything long term here).

At the end of the day ford has made some stupid decisions (we need the 413 like we need a nuclear strike) but he hasn't been as bad as he could be especially with the covid reponse (yes kenney and moe I'm looking at you) and those who need ODSP to survive as still getting kicked in the teeth.

Sure some people have blamed him for the 6th wave spike but fuck me, the vaccination rate for the 3rd shot is 66% so I wonder how many of the complainants have gone out and gotten 3rd shot, make sure the their kids have had it and still wear masks.

But who else is there? Can't stand horvath and think she would be fucking disaster and del duca is reheat of a wynne left over. Think the liberal screwed up big time. They needed a clean skin and didn't chose one as leader.

And the big policies are joke.

we've heard
a) privatise for profit long term care. Claim that it will be $2bil a year to buy them out but I expect that's just the tip of the iceburg - you need to factor in buying out the infrastructure, the staff and need to compensate them lose of ongoing profits. I suspect it will would wind up in the courts. Cheaper move would be to employ more inspectors and enforce the existing regulations.

b) cutting the HST on meals under $16. If people want to save money don't eat out as much - the HST savings only won't really amount to much - learn to cook, if you hate having to choose meals and shop, there's the various box companies which yes can be expensive but sometimes can work out well and about $10 - $12 per head per meal.

c) $1 bus fares for 18 months will achieve what? A better approach is to increase funding the municipalities for transit services. Transit could be free and people still wouldn't use if there's is no bus for people to catch. At the end of the day the biggest motivator for people taking cars is convenience. Leave when you want, don't worry about the person seated next smelling they have washed in a week and do the trip in half the time.

OK, I'm as left-wing as you are going to find on the internet, excluding anyone with personality disorders. (Not that I think they shouldn't be respected.)

Anyway, when Ford was elected I understood. The province was tired of Wynne and the Liberals. I was too. ANY person breathing could have been chosen leader of the Conservatives and gotten elected Premier.

Damn. It ended up being Doug Ford, a guy who had everything handed to him and barely avoided running his inherited company into the ground. A guy who couldn't say no to any "independent businessman" who needed a favour and had made a contribution to his election campaign. I could go on, but I think you get where I'm coming from.

Before COVID, he was a farce. When COVID arrived we had photo ops of him unloading a truck supposedly filled with masks and other useful items. He may as well have been unloading a truck full of illicitly produced pot and hash.

But here's the thing: He learned on the job and he is not the guy who was elected four years ago. He's learned and grown and did pretty good through this crisis.

Now, does he have a concrete plan to resolve the problems in long-term care homes? No. Does he see the problem with building another highway through a sensibly developing suburb? No. He's not a smart guy. But he's learning and growing on the job. Another term and the province might be worse than before, but A: Not as worse as Mike Harris would have created, and B: Not as worse as Del Duca would produce. Don't get me started on the NDP. They make a great oppositon.

None of them are worth trusting my province to, but Ford is electable and has learned at least a few things. I won't vote for the effer, but I won't hate it when he wins. Fingers crossed he doesn't fuck things up worse.

 

[Owain Taggart]

The worst is when you have a completely new slate of politicians vying everyone's attention. They haven't proven their worth, and you don't know their history and if you can trust them. But they've somehow become a candidate for one of the major parties. And it feels really weird when it's for the party you would normally vote for. That's the case with our local federal Liberal candidate. Appears to have come out of nowhere. Doesn't have a history in politics as far as I know, and his picture doesn't make him look like someone I'd vote for. He looks shifty-eyed with a half-smile. Gonna be an interesting few months.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

I don't feel right when I don't vote. If the Rhino party was still around I'd vote for them. I'll probably end up voting Green as a protest/kinda agree with them vote. Unless I'm impressed with someone local who gives a crap.

 

[Marc]

The worst is when you have a completely new slate of politicians vying everyone's attention. They haven't proven their worth, and you don't know their history and if you can trust them. But they've somehow become a candidate for one of the major parties. And it feels really weird when it's for the party you would normally vote for. That's the case with our local federal Liberal candidate. Appears to have come out of nowhere. Doesn't have a history in politics as far as I know, and his picture doesn't make him look like someone I'd vote for. He looks shifty-eyed with a half-smile. Gonna be an interesting few months.

I'm not sure if the liberal candidate is currently living here. The article in the local paper mentioned that he graduated from high school here but nothing to indicate that he lives in the riding or has spent much time here since 2008 when he started working fro the federal govt in foreign services.

the candidate for the ontario party definitely doesn't live here (is down towards Kingston and has been "trying" to move here).

 

[Avro Arrow]

his picture doesn't make him look like someone I'd vote for. He looks shifty-eyed with a half-smile.

Sometimes I think the world would be a nicer place if we (as a species, not trying to single you out) could get over prejudging people by their appearance.

I'm one of those people who votes primarily based on party. The way our system currently works, unless they're in cabinet, the individual MP/MPP is basically a seatwarmer anyway, so it doesn't matter as much who they are. They may not have enough power to impact much, but by the same token, they don't really have too much ability to mess anything up too much, either.

 

[Warped9]

Del Duca looks like an undertaker. Or a guy running a magazine stand. He is essentially a Kathleen Wynne retread.

 

[Marc]

Sometimes I think the world would be a nicer place if we (as a species, not trying to single you out) could get over prejudging people by their appearance.

I'm one of those people who votes primarily based on party. The way our system currently works, unless they're in cabinet, the individual MP/MPP is basically a seatwarmer anyway, so it doesn't matter as much who they are. They may not have enough power to impact much, but by the same token, they don't really have too much ability to mess anything up too much, either.

But you want them to at least make representations on behalf of constituents on major issues. They can also put forward private members bills which can make changes. My wife's boss had private members bill that would help a section of the community with disabilities (played a major role in it's development) but it ended up not going to ahead due to a combination of covid, some internal party issues and a ministry that sat on it's thumb claiming it was seeking comment from stakeholders.

He's also pushed for better handling of the opioid crisis here but then been up against a couple of city groups more interested in their own little empires.

His office has remained open through out the pandemic except when they closed due on police advice due threats of violence so people have been able to get help.

Which is more than can be said for our current and previous MPs of both political stripes.

Though from my wife's experience, the biggest obstacle to MPPs and their staff being able to help constituents is the various ministries. In her case, dealing with a lot of ODSP issues has really the MCSS has two speeds - slow and backwards and that's when they aren't a dead stop.

One other thing is how many people don't know or don't want to know the difference between municipal, provincial and federal.

The MPP has commmented on a number of occasions on my wife's patience with dealing with people.

Me? Would have wanted to lead down the phone lines and rip their heads off (in 30 of years of doing IT support I met some dumb users but nothing compared to what the wife deals with).

 

[Timewalker]

The worst is when you have a completely new slate of politicians vying everyone's attention. They haven't proven their worth, and you don't know their history and if you can trust them. But they've somehow become a candidate for one of the major parties. And it feels really weird when it's for the party you would normally vote for. That's the case with our local federal Liberal candidate. Appears to have come out of nowhere. Doesn't have a history in politics as far as I know, and his picture doesn't make him look like someone I'd vote for. He looks shifty-eyed with a half-smile. Gonna be an interesting few months.

I belong to the FB group Albertans Reject Draft Curriculum. There are approximately 40,000 people in that group, and when the municipal elections were held last October, many of us spent 2-3 months (as soon as any candidates had declared, especially the school board people), digging up every scrap of information we could about them, their education-related credentials, past voting history (if they had held previous political office), and then after the nomination deadline passed and the slate of candidates was finalized, we really started digging:

Have you read the proposed draft curriculum? Y/N

If the answer was yes, the next question was to ask what they thought about it - the pros, the cons, what should be changed. If the answer was no, the next question was to ask the candidate if they planned to read it. A wishy-washy or negative answer or no answer moved that candidate to the list of Candidates Who Should NOT be voted for.

We did this in as many constituencies and wards as possible, to weed out the good from the bad. And this is how it worked out that not one of the public school board trustees in Calgary is in favor of a curriculum that is based on Alabama's curriculum, is racist, sexist, focused on American stuff, European stuff, age-inappropriate, partly plagiarized from Wikipedia, and was done with no input from real teachers, but rather included input from Americans who have never been teachers but think Albertan kids need to memorize the KKK slogan but not know anything about the Canadian Constitution or Charter of Rights.

So the moral is: Go on FB, find like-minded people for whatever issues you're trying to promote, and organize as much as possible. Groups can be private or public. At least you'll have some idea if a lot of people agree with you or not, and you can go from there to organize information sessions, rallies, and try to convince voters. And please include disabled voters. Not all are in nursing homes, and even housebound seniors and disabled people have the right to vote. It's the law that they have to be helped.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Sometimes I think the world would be a nicer place if we (as a species, not trying to single you out) could get over prejudging people by their appearance.

Ahh, yeah, I get what you mean. It probably sounds mean. I guess it's a human flaw. In the end, everyone needs to find their way to be a breadwinner. It's just that as far as politicians go, I think appearances do make an impression, at least as far as photos go. In his case, I would probably have gotten the photographer to redo the picture, because it was a terrible picture. Reminds me of the time I had to get my passport photo redone because they'd originally had it set too high and the angle on it was all wrong. When I got it redone, they adjusted the camera better to suit my height, which I think is what's going on here.

I'm one of those people who votes primarily based on party. The way our system currently works, unless they're in cabinet, the individual MP/MPP is basically a seatwarmer anyway, so it doesn't matter as much who they are. They may not have enough power to impact much, but by the same token, they don't really have too much ability to mess anything up too much, either.

I don't think I could ever vote based on party alone. It helps to know who's representing the parties beyond their talking points. If you don't have a good representative fighting for you, the riding may as well not exist. Northern Ontario is a bit of a different beast when it comes to voting, as we see the people first, the party second. If they fail to impress us during their campaigns, they don't get our vote. Which is why there's a lot less party allegiance here. I could easily vote for either Liberal or NDP based on who's representing us. The region has a history of flipping between those two.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

It's just that as far as politicians go, I think appearances do make an impression, at least as far as photos go.

For better or worse, it's been bred into us for tens of thousands of generations. Heck, my dog responds to my facial expressions. I don't think that's the only thing we should judge by, but I do think it's one legitimate element.

 

[Owain Taggart]

^ Oh, I fully agree. Yeah, we probably shouldn't, but as politicians are public facing representatives, one would want the best presentation, with the best intentions. After all, we spend our time electing them and putting trust in them, so I think it's only fair to want a representation that won't reflect badly on us when it comes to the larger stage, ie Toronto or Ottawa.

We have a local guy, a religious extremist, who has tried his hand at getting into politics for a number of decades now, at different levels of government. Local council, Mayoral race, Federal and national representative candidacy, you name it, he's tried it. It's almost cute at this point to keep seeing his name on the ballot even when he has no real chance. But he's been banned from any debates for spewing hate speech, something he did when a debate was being broadcast live, and he's been charged for it. Apparently they can't stop him from trying, as it would then count as discrimination. But when asked about it, he apparently hasn't learned, pointing a line in the bible to support his thinking. That's not someone I'd ever want to represent us in any fashion.

And I guess that's partly why we've become a little more protective of who we want to represent us.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

I guess for me it's like this: Sales require a certain ability for persuasion and getting a stranger to trust your advice. At the same time a fair amount of people with this ability are functioning sociopaths.

We have far too many sociopaths in politics, I think I even remember studies to that effect. At the same time a party needs to make its policies understood and accepted by the voters. It's a fine line, but we want candidates that are articulate and personable, who also have empathy for the people they hope to serve. Rare birds. Honesty, ethics, and full disclosure make for even rarer birds. Then add the requirement of the press that they have never made a personal mistake in their personal lives or else be constantly ridiculed? [cough] Adam Giambrone [/cough] And we need 124 of them in Ontario, or at least 63 in the same party?

Lucky us, if it ever happens.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I have, oddly, received campaign literature and phone calls from two different parties... promoting candidates in a different riding. I don't recall that ever happening before. After the first time, I thought it was just a mistake. But when another party did the same thing, I actually decided I'd better check with Elections Ontario to see if the riding boundaries had been changed. (Spoiler alert: they had not.)

It's not like I'm right at the border between two ridings either, so I'm not sure why this is happening. One of the candidates in question is the incumbent in the other riding, so you might think he would know the limits of the area he was representing? And I haven't seen anything from those parties yet for the candidates who actually are in my riding. It's bizarre.

Just to be clear, both parties are clearly identifying that the candidates are running in the other riding, they just seem to think I am in that other riding, and I assuredly am not.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

I have, oddly, received campaign literature and phone calls from two different parties... promoting candidates in a different riding. I don't recall that ever happening before. After the first time, I thought it was just a mistake. But when another party did the same thing, I actually decided I'd better check with Elections Ontario to see if the riding boundaries had been changed. (Spoiler alert: they had not.)

It's not like I'm right at the border between two ridings either, so I'm not sure why this is happening. One of the candidates in question is the incumbent in the other riding, so you might think he would know the limits of the area he was representing? And I haven't seen anything from those parties yet for the candidates who actually are in my riding. It's bizarre.

Just to be clear, both parties are clearly identifying that the candidates are running in the other riding, they just seem to think I am in that other riding, and I assuredly am not.

You are on their lists because of something you inadvertently clicked on that included you in the cohort of people who clicked. It's gone beyond what we were used to in the "old days." I'm going to sound paranoid, but we get tracked and become targeted in ways we never imagined a few years ago.

It's at the point where blocking ads or cookies doesn't do the trick anymore. I get shit in my mailbox that I have no idea why they would be sending messages. And I've been really careful about it, just cause I hate having to sort through spam and junk. At the same time there are some notices that I do want to get. It's become pretty chaotic. I expect it to get worse over time.

It's getting close to the point where I'll drop using email. Mail me using actual physical Canada post. Not quite there yet but it's getting close.

Or maybe I'm just an old age curmudgeon.

 

[Owain Taggart]

I guess for me it's like this: Sales require a certain ability for persuasion and getting a stranger to trust your advice. At the same time a fair amount of people with this ability are functioning sociopaths.

We have far too many sociopaths in politics, I think I even remember studies to that effect. At the same time a party needs to make its policies understood and accepted by the voters. It's a fine line, but we want candidates that are articulate and personable, who also have empathy for the people they hope to serve. Rare birds. Honesty, ethics, and full disclosure make for even rarer birds. Then add the requirement of the press that they have never made a personal mistake in their personal lives or else be constantly ridiculed? [cough] Adam Giambrone [/cough] And we need 124 of them in Ontario, or at least 63 in the same party?

Lucky us, if it ever happens.

Good points. And I have to say that it's really hard to make an informed decision about a candidate when they're such a wildcard. Election is on June 2nd, which is really quite soon. Our local Liberal candidate I spoke about earlier is someone we know very little about, which doesn't sit well with me. You would think someone trying to get elected would make more of an effort to make himself be known.

 

[Timewalker]

I have, oddly, received campaign literature and phone calls from two different parties... promoting candidates in a different riding. I don't recall that ever happening before. After the first time, I thought it was just a mistake. But when another party did the same thing, I actually decided I'd better check with Elections Ontario to see if the riding boundaries had been changed. (Spoiler alert: they had not.)

It's not like I'm right at the border between two ridings either, so I'm not sure why this is happening. One of the candidates in question is the incumbent in the other riding, so you might think he would know the limits of the area he was representing? And I haven't seen anything from those parties yet for the candidates who actually are in my riding. It's bizarre.

Just to be clear, both parties are clearly identifying that the candidates are running in the other riding, they just seem to think I am in that other riding, and I assuredly am not.

Maybe your own riding's candidates are insanely overconfident about being elected/re-elected.

After all... in federal politics, look what happened to Lisa Raitt. She was so damn sure she'd be re-elected that she barely bothered to canvass in her own riding or do much of anything, though she worked diligently to help a buddy or two in other ridings.

And to her self-entitled, arrogant shock, she lost her seat to Adam van Koeverden, a former Olympic kayaking medalist from another party, who put in months of doorknocking and getting to know the riding, well before the election writ was dropped. He put in the effort to show he gave a damn. She didn't. He was rewarded with a seat. She whined and bitched and sulked about it for months, with the attitude of "that dirty little canoeist snuck into my seat". That woman has NO self-awareness.