The Man Who Allowed Vulcan to be Destroyed

[Search4]

So i keep thinking its Captain Pike who ultimately allowed Vulcan to be destroyed.

SPOCK: Captain, the Romulan ship has lowered some kind of high energy pulse device into the Vulcan atmosphere. It's signal appears to be blocking our communications and transporter abilities.
PIKE: All power to forward shields. Prepare to fire all weapons.

What Pike did not say: We don't know what they're doing. Fire phasers at the pulse device.

But its clear that Pike recognizes the pulse device is a problem. Here's the text:
PIKE: Without transporters, we can't beam off the ship, we can't assist Vulcan, we can't do our job. Mister Kirk, Mister Sulu, Engineer Olson, will space-jump from the shuttle. You will land on that machine they lowered into the atmosphere that's scrambling our gear. You'll get inside. You'll disable it, then you'll beam back to the ship.

Isn't it pretty silly to go through the whole "space jump" rigamarole rather than just destroy it directly?

The other ships arriving at Vulcan didn't have a chance to stop Nero - he destroyed them immediately. Enterprise did... and Pike made not one, but two wrong calls.

Isn't he the man who allowed Vulcan to be destroyed?

 

[F. King Daniel]

No, because nobody had a clue that Nero had weaponized black holes at his disposal until he actually used one.

The man who "allowed" Vulcan to be destroyed was Nero. And his complicit crew.

 

[BillJ]

The man who allowed Vulcan to be destroyed was Spock Prime. He had a doomsday weapon and failed to destroy the Jellyfish before it fell into enemy hands.

 

[Set Harth]

The man who allowed Vulcan to be destroyed was J.J. Abrams.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

We are ALL complicit. Did you watch this movie? Did you pay for a ticket and/or dvd? Are you posting or reading this forum which receives advertising revenue when you even look at it?

Complicit.

 

[Psion]

We are ALL complicit. Did you watch this movie? Did you pay for a ticket and/or dvd? Are you posting or reading this forum which receives advertising revenue when you even look at it?

Complicit.

...

I ... But ... !

Oh my god, I didn't mean to!

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Nah, it's Uhura who destroyed Vulcan. Personally. She was too busy playing hard to get whilst plotting getting Gaila in a threesome with Spock, and totally missed the opportunity to uncover the Romulans with Kirk earlier on.

 

[indranee]

We are ALL complicit. Did you watch this movie? Did you pay for a ticket and/or dvd? Are you posting or reading this forum which receives advertising revenue when you even look at it?

Complicit.

Thanks for the belly laugh.

 

[bbailey861]

Nah, it's Uhura who destroyed Vulcan. Personally. She was too busy playing hard to get whilst plotting getting Gaila in a threesome with Spock, and totally missed the opportunity to uncover the Romulans with Kirk earlier on.

I'm really mad at Uhura, now.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

According to Countdown it was future Vulcan itself that was ultimatly repsosible, as they started the time war thingy that led to their own destruction making them a victim of their own hubris.

 

[MacLeod]

It is likely that had Pike ordered the Enterprise weapons destroyed, Nero would simply have blown the Enterprise apart.

Perhaps if they were lucky they might have destroyed the mining laser platfrom in a single hit.

 

[Kemaiku]

It is likely that had Pike ordered the Enterprise weapons destroyed, Nero would simply have blown the Enterprise apart.

Exactly this. The Enterprise was only safe so long as she stood down and allowed Nero to do what he was doing. One single phaser shot anywhere near the pulse device and she'd have been space dust in a heartbeat.

Pike wasn't about to have his entire crew slaughtered when he could find a way to stall Nero and disable the device covertly.

 

[indranee]

Right and Pike didn't know that the beam was actually going to end up destroying Vulcan.

 

[Sci]

It is likely that had Pike ordered the Enterprise weapons destroyed, Nero would simply have blown the Enterprise apart.

Exactly this. The Enterprise was only safe so long as she stood down and allowed Nero to do what he was doing. One single phaser shot anywhere near the pulse device and she'd have been space dust in a heartbeat.

Pike wasn't about to have his entire crew slaughtered when he could find a way to stall Nero and disable the device covertly.

Exactly. Pike's plan came about as close to saving Vulcan as anything possibly could have, given their absolute lack of information that the Narada had Red Matter technology.

 

[T'Girl]

It is likely that had Pike ordered the Enterprise weapons destroyed, Nero would simply have blown the Enterprise apart.

Yes, but only after the Enterprise fired.

Perhaps if they were lucky they might have destroyed the mining laser platfrom in a single hit.

Because they were able to "land" skydivers on the lower platform, it was obviously unshielded. Kirk damaged it with a hand weapon. The Enterprise could have reasonably destroyed it from orbit with a single shot, perhaps mangling the tube to the point that the red matter could not have been fired toward the hole drilled in Vulcan.

It is likely that had Pike ordered the Enterprise weapons destroyed, Nero would simply have blown the Enterprise apart.

Yes, exchanging the hundreds (thousands?) of lives aboard the Enterprise for the billions of civilian lives on Vulcan.

[Exactly this. The Enterprise was only safe so long as she stood down and allowed Nero to do what he was doing. One single phaser shot anywhere near the pulse device and she'd have been space dust in a heartbeat.

Agree, but Pike still should have fired.

Pike wasn't about to have his entire crew slaughtered when he could find a way to stall Nero and disable the device covertly.

But only after billions died. Captain Pike was wrong not to have fired. While knowledge of the Red Matter was missing, Nero had already established his hostile intent when he destroyed the arriving fleet, waiting to obtain more information was a foolish move.

When all was said and done, Captain Pike should have been court martialed by Starfleet.

Culpable Negigence - recklessly acting without reasonable caution and putting another person at risk of injury or death (or failing to do something with the same consequences).

 

[Search4]

Appreciate the support, T'Girl.

The fleet is destroyed - the unknown enemy force has deployed a "pulse device" at Vulcan - it is not shielded (they destroyed it with a hand weapon, and also shown in the final take down by Spock) - best choice would be to destroy the unknown device before it could do damage.

Nero could have had multiple drills... there's lots of "ifs" out there. But hundreds of Starfleet officers had already died and firing on the Narada is a demonstrable waste of time. Destroy the drill.

 

[Sci]

It is likely that had Pike ordered the Enterprise weapons destroyed, Nero would simply have blown the Enterprise apart.

Yes, but only after the Enterprise fired.

Perhaps if they were lucky they might have destroyed the mining laser platfrom in a single hit.

Because they were able to "land" skydivers on the lower platform, it was obviously unshielded. Kirk damaged it with a hand weapon. The Enterprise could have reasonably destroyed it from orbit with a single shot,

What makes you think they knew that hand weapon would be all that was needed to damage it?

perhaps mangling the tube to the point that the red matter could not have been fired toward the hole drilled in Vulcan.

Yes, exchanging the hundreds (thousands?) of lives aboard the Enterprise for the billions of civilian lives on Vulcan.

You're attributing retroactive knowledge to Pike and the Enterprise crew. They had no idea that the entire planet was literally in danger of destruction; all they knew was that there was this drilling shaft extended that needed to be stopped, and that moving openly against it would lead to the Enterprise being destroyed in two seconds. They did not know how hard or easy it would be to destroy the drill, and they did not know that Red Matter existed or would be used to destroy the entire planet.

Your logic would be sound if they had any way of knowing those pieces of information, but they did not. On the basis of the information they did have -- that the drill was disabling sensors and comms; that the Narada had destroyed the fleet and would destroy the Enterprise if it openly attacked the drill; that they had no backup if the Enterprise was destroyed; that the most optimal way of destroying the drill would be by covertly inserting a strike team capable of disabling it from within, thereby creating confusion among the Narada crew and giving the Enterprise a fighting chance -- Pike made the best possible decision.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Sure, the Enterprise destroys the drill with a single shot, and then the Narada annihilates the Enterprise with another volley (or two). What's been gained by that?

The Narada can then resume its operation with any further resistance and drop the Red Matter down that incredibly deep hole that may not be quite at the core, but is very probably deep enough. Hell, would Nero even really need the hole? What's stopping him dropping Red Matter onto the surface of Vulcan and creating the Black Hole there? I imagine the results would be similar.

No one is left to warn Starfleet and nothing remaining to stop Nero from hitting his next target, or the target after that... sure, somewhere in there the fleet that was engaged at the Laurentian system would probably make an effort to engage the Narada... likely with similar results as the fleet at Vulcan. Bear in mind, 47 Klingon warbirds couldn't stand against the Narada either.

Blame Pike all you like for making the decision he could make with the information he had. Don't forget to add that his actions indirectly saved Earth and the Federation.

 

[UFO]

You're attributing retroactive knowledge to Pike and the Enterprise crew. They had no idea that the entire planet was literally in danger of destruction; all they knew was that there was this drilling shaft extended that needed to be stopped, and that moving openly against it would lead to the Enterprise being destroyed in two seconds. They did not know how hard or easy it would be to destroy the drill, and they did not know that Red Matter existed or would be used to destroy the entire planet.

Of those four objections only the possibility of the Enterprise being destroyed is really all that valid in my view and even that should be debatable (see below).

- Nero had just destroyed a Federation fleet, a Klingon fleet and wasn't too friendly when he first showed up either. Now he was drilling into an uninhabited part of Vulcan (so not a tactical target).
- He wasn't prospecting for gold. They may not have known his exact plans but it didn't look good for Vulcan.
- They didn't need to know about red matter. Even if no planet destroying weapon was known in the 23rd Centrury at that time, the least they could expect was a planet wide life destroying weapon (nuclear winter perhaps or similar). But given it was aimed at the planet primarily, planet destroying was a possibility. There was certainly reason to think large numbers of Vulcans were in danger.
- I don't think they believed destroying the drill would be difficult. They only sent three men and some TNT. But given the likely outcome, it was probably worth the risk to use the Enterprise (assuming that was the best tactic).
- The danger to the Enterprise itself was a movable feast. Despite seeing their destroyed fleet when they arrived at Vulcan, their computer guided point defence was hopeless at intercepting Neros missiles. Yet achieved 100% success later in the film.
- The same variability plagued the Narada as well. Depending on the scene, it was anything from invincible to a pushover, as the plot demanded.

... that the most optimal way of destroying the drill would be by covertly inserting a strike team capable of disabling it from within, thereby creating confusion among the Narada crew and giving the Enterprise a fighting chance -- Pike made the best possible decision.

The Narada's crew realised the drill had been sabotaged, they said something to that effect I believe, so no confusion there. Interestingly, despite knowing that the sabotage had to be the work of the Enterprise's crew, Nero didn't order it destroyed!

Blame Pike all you like for making the decision he could make with the information he had. Don't forget to add that his actions indirectly saved Earth and the Federation.

No, that was blind luck (Kirk on DV etc) and an implausible plot (see variability above).

I don't know if Pike made the right descision, but he had to know Vulcan, or at least its people, were in great danger.

 

[T'Girl]

No one is left to warn Starfleet and ...

Starfleet was made aware that something was wrong at Vulcan other than seismic activity when they lost contact with the fleet they sent. That was their warning.

the fleet that was engaged at the Laurentian system would probably make an effort to engage the Narada... likely with similar results as the fleet at Vulcan.

It was only after his conversation with Kirk that Pike raised his shields and called a red alert, suggesting the fleet that preceded the Enterprise into Vulcan orbit arrived with their shields down and expecting a rescue mission. The shields up Enterprise withstood the Narada's first attempt to destroy her.

The scene where Spock is going to ram the jellyfish into the Narada show that a modern Starfleet vessel (if ready) can target and destroy the Narada's missiles.

Sure, the Enterprise destroys the drill with a single shot, and then the Narada annihilates the Enterprise with another volley (or two). What's been gained by that?

If they had fired at the platform at the the end of Nero's communication, it would have accomplished preventing Nero from completing his drilling into Vulcan.

... and drop the Red Matter down that incredibly deep hole that may not be quite at the core

One of Nero's crew reported that "... we have reached the planet's core. "

Hell, would Nero even really need the hole?

He did drill one completely to the core of Vulcan, and started drilling a hole into Earth.

What's stopping him dropping Red Matter onto the surface of Vulcan and creating the Black Hole there? I imagine the results would be similar.

Why would you imagine that? The red matter is shown to be sent into the core of Vulcan, why would Nero do this if it wasn't necessary?

Would red matter create a black hole, would it "activate," if it was simply placed on the planet's surface.

Don't forget to add that his actions indirectly saved Earth and the Federation.

How? His delaying the attack upon the platform resulted in the destruction of Vulcan. After Pike left the Enterprise, he had no more interaction with the ship. And after his shuttle delivered Pike to the Narada, it's implied that he gave access code to Nero. It was Kirk's violating of Pike's standing orders that saved Earth.