The least disliked episode of DS9 - Season Seven

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by BlueStuff, Nov 18, 2017.

  1. Sakonna

    Sakonna Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges is an episode that, on paper, I would expect to love. Bashir, Romulans, Section 31, Starfleet's moral ambiguity, all these things are great -- yet somehow the final result is dramatically inert -- the ingredients are excellent, but the recipe is off.

    I think sometimes they should have just not gone back to Section 31 after "Inquisition." It was a compelling addition to the Trek mythos, but with everything else going on they didn't have time to develop it properly, and it would have made perfect sense to never hear from this super secret organization again. Or if they didn't step away from it entirely, they should have leaned into it harder (when the Dax symbiont takes a turn for the worse on the way back home, imagine the only Trill on the ship was not a naive counselor ensign, but a crewmember who was also a secret Section 31 operative -- after the joining, her devotion to that cause is challenged by all the new influences from Dax -- and now we have a more direct way to access that story and give Ezri war-related things to do)

    The Siege of AR-558
    It's Only a Paper Moon
    Til Death Do Us Part
    Strange Bedfellows
    The Changing Face of Evil
    When It Rains...
    Tacking Into the Wind
    What You Leave Behind
     
  2. SpocksOddSocks

    SpocksOddSocks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 30, 2015
    Location:
    SpocksOddSocks
    Well, continuing my dislike for Vic Fontaine stuff, I'm ditching It's Only a Paper Moon.

    The Siege of AR-558
    Til Death Do Us Part
    Strange Bedfellows
    The Changing Face of Evil
    When It Rains...
    Tacking Into the Wind
    What You Leave Behind
     
  3. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    Is anyone else amused that all of the episodes left are essentially the finale except for "Siege"?

    My memory of what happens when in those episodes is faded enough that I would have a fair bit of trouble picking at this point.
     
  4. BlueStuff

    BlueStuff Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Location:
    BlueStuff回家
    Like Ned Stark riding to Storm's End, I'm lifting The Siege of AR-558. A popular episode that I always found overrated, plodding and dull.

    Til Death Do Us Part
    Strange Bedfellows
    The Changing Face of Evil
    When It Rains...
    Tacking Into the Wind
    What You Leave Behind
     
  5. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Stop. Hemmer time! Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Location:
    UK
    More of my favourites have fallen by the wayside. Now it's time for Til Death Do Us Part, mostly for the Ezri/Worf portion.

    Strange Bedfellows
    The Changing Face of Evil
    When It Rains...
    Tacking Into the Wind
    What You Leave Behind
     
  6. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    All great episodes left behind. However, one must go. "WHEN IT RAINS...", it pours. It was a great episode, a great setup for the next phase of the final arc, but it's greatest strength is being the setup instead of just being great.

    Strange Bedfellows
    The Changing Face of Evil
    Tacking Into the Wind
    What You Leave Behind
     
  7. BigDaveX

    BigDaveX Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    I'll kick Strange Bedfellows out of the bed. Another case of an otherwise solid episode that's primarily set-up for the major event episode that follows; the remaining three, by contrast, all stand by themselves much better.

    The Changing Face of Evil
    Tacking Into the Wind
    What You Leave Behind
     
  8. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Bad Thoughts
    What You Leave Behind. Sixty thrilling minutes packed into two hours. The episode has emotional highs,but also great lulls,through which the Defiant crew shakes, Dukat and Winn walk, and silly CG fire comes to life. Great, but there is greater.

    The Changing Face of Evil
    Tacking Into the Wind
     
  9. Sakonna

    Sakonna Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    And I'll make Tacking Into The Wind the winner.

    Obviously Extreme Measures and Dogs Of War are deeply flawed episodes, and I cannot deny What You Leave Behind has some significant mistakes, but for the first 6 parts of this arc, I think each one is better than the one before -- which makes this the most perfect ep in the final run.

    The Klingon resolution has to pay off not only everything they did with them on DS9, but TNG as well, and they actually manage that. The bit where Ezri comes in and punctures 12 years of Klingon self-delusion in a single scene is particularly delightful ("And how many times have you had to cover up the crimes of Klingon leaders because you were told it was for the good of the Empire?" So many times!!!)

    The Cardassian resistance plot in this one also manages to be exquisitely tense and deeply emotional throughout. All around, it's just an exceptionally well written and acted hour of television.

    It also helps that Winn and Dukat are benched in this one. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
    Seven of Five likes this.
  10. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Stop. Hemmer time! Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Location:
    UK
    Excellent episode and what I would have picked. :)
     
  11. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    I completely agree. It deserves to win. And seeing the Defiant destroyed was so heartbreaking... to me, that was the reason why it shouldn't win, despite the fact I understand why it was done and it being an excellent episode.
     
  12. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    I love that "Changing Face" goes from the demoralized crew returning from the five-second loss of Defiant to Damar's kindling of new hope. I daresay that was Casey Biggs' finest moment in the series.
     
  13. Sakonna

    Sakonna Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    I feel like that always happens... I think it's just easier to remember something you dislike about one of the discrete episodes from the first 16, because it seems pretty much everyone has overall positive feelings about the final arc, and it can be hard to immediately recall what story points landed where.
     
    SpocksOddSocks likes this.
  14. Mattadd

    Mattadd Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    It's Only a Paper Moon was my favourite of the season... ah Well, not my year I guess.
     
  15. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    ^I was a little disappointed that that one was axed on the basis of "It's another Vic episode", because I thought it was a standout Nog episode. Oh well.

    It's not necessarily one of my favorites, but only because, much like "The Quickening" I get uncomfortable watching it.
     
  16. Sakonna

    Sakonna Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    It's also interesting to me that "Paper Moon" is always discussed in the context of being about two guest stars, since it's all Vic and Nog, but I never see the same observation made about "Once More Onto The Breach", which is all about Kor and Martok. (Worf is present for a lot of this, but does nothing... he's not involved in the story in any meaningful way)

    (For the record, I'm a big fan of both episodes)
     
  17. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    Honestly, if by S7 one still considers Nog a guest star in anything beyond the technical sense, I don't think one really understands what DS9 was going for. He's been in the show since the beginning and how he's credited by this point should be immaterial to the larger role he serves in the story. Hell, I probably remember more of his than Jake's role in the series, in the end.
     
    MakeshiftPython likes this.
  18. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2013
    Location:
    Baja?! I haven't got anything in Baja!
    Only squares dislike Vic Fontaine.

    ;)
     
    DonIago and Seven of Five like this.
  19. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Stop. Hemmer time! Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Location:
    UK
    I thought he was alright actually. Using Ezri too much annoyed me more really.
     
  20. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Location:
    JirinPanthosa
    I thought Vic had good moments like It's Only A Paper Moon but for me it was suspension of disbelief breaking to have the entire crew so obsessed with him. One crew member obsessed with him, okay. Julian gets really into him and the rest of the crew humors him about it or tease him about it, fine. The entire crew liking the magical hologram that much, just never believed it. Even Worf was into him.

    I think if you eliminate the finale and treat the first sixteen episodes as one season, it would be the weakest overall season of DS9 including the first. Siege was good, Paper Moon as good. Field of Fire, Badda Bing and Holosuite are 3 of the 10 series worst, and half the remaining episodes were trying to force a square Ezri into a round Dax.