The laughable "trial" in TUC

[Grendelsbayne]

I'm really sorry, but no amount of well intended rationalizing is going to change my mind on this one. It was bad writing, pure and simple. It is an implausible plot development no matter what the Klingon culture is like. High ranking politician in a time of crisis is absolutely not the right person to be prosecuting in this case. It was done as a plot device to create drama and solidify Chang as the primary villain. That is all.

It is one of many things about Star Trek VI that I find to be unimpressive and generally sloppy.

Personally, I would say that insisting that *alien civilizations* must act in the same way as (your preffered) human civilization acts would be bad writing, unimpressive and generally sloppy. The idea that the principles of justice should be viewed the same way by the Klingons as by the Federation is completely laughable, especially in light of the fact that our one little species on this one little world doesn't even adhere to that expectation of uniformity.

I'm sorry, but trying to say that the writers intentionally had "alien justice systems" in mind when they decided to have Christopher Plummer as the prosecutor in the court room scene is the worst kind of excuse making and rationalization I have seen in a long time. It was nothing of the sort.

Chang was the "bad guy" therefore he had to do "bad guy things" like accuse Kirk and McCoy of murder. Plummer is an excellent actor, therefore he needs to get a juicy scene, being literary and making historical references due to his Shakespear training, prosecuting Kirk and McCoy.

That's sloppy writing.

I know a lot of fans have a soft spot in their hearts for this film, and therefore make excuses for stuff in it that is generally crap. I like it too. That doesn't change my opinion that it was a sloppy, rushed production and an overindulgent and pretentious script influenced by Nick Meyer.

So any time a scene is written in a way that serves the purposes of the script and the character while simultaneously causing no legitimate story problems whatsoever, it's sloppy writing. Interesting theory.

There is no reason whatsoever to expect that the trial scene should be in any way 'fair' or close to any traditional court scene. Calling it sloppy writing because it serves its own purpose while ignoring your completely unfounded expectations is absurd.

 

[Ghel]

I'd agree that Cheng as prosecutor makes perfect sense when viewed through the lens of the Klingon culture. Remember this is the culture where, when Quark discovers embezzlement, the Klingons don't have anyone who is even capable of following the paperwork. Instead they hand Quark a Batleth and expect him to fight his opponent. Quark only "wins" his case because his enemy was willing to kill him after he dropped his weapon.
I'd say Kirk is lucky that due to his diplomatic status he even GETS a trial. Cheng as prosecutor makes perfect sense. Essentially it's his "honor" against Kirks.
As far as the Federation standing for this, I also never had a problem with that. If two commanding officers from a vessel that fired upon an enemy vessel have to be prosecuted by the opponent (even if the conviction is foregone) there are many political leaders even today who would happily and easily make that "trade."

 

[johnnybear]

And then there was that ENT episode that ripped off TUC.

It wasn't as much a rip-off as it was an intentional acknowledgement. Berman could have vetoed it at any time.

Rip off or not it certainly tried to emulate the more impressive film by dirtying the waters apparently...
JB

 

[T'Girl]

THERE IS NO REASON KLINGON JUSTICE SHOULD RESEMBLE EARTH'S, LET ALONE THE U.S.A'S.

If there is an expectation that the people and governing body of the Federation are going accept said "justice," then yes there should be just such a resemblance.

At least a resemblance to a recognizable court system of a Federation Member, where Kirk and McCoy would have had legal representation from the Federation, probably a Starfleet JAG lawyer team. There should have been a change of venue to a neutral third party environment. The right of discovery should have been observed, with defense investigators being given access to Kronos One.

Did President Wimp even try?

Why would the people of the Federation be willing to extend any level of aid to the Klingon Empire after such a trial?

 

[Grendelsbayne]

THERE IS NO REASON KLINGON JUSTICE SHOULD RESEMBLE EARTH'S, LET ALONE THE U.S.A'S.

If there is an expectation that the people and governing body of the Federation are going accept said "justice," then yes there should be just such a resemblance.

At least a resemblance to a recognizable court system of a Federation Member, where Kirk and McCoy would have had legal representation from the Federation, probably a Starfleet JAG lawyer team. There should have been a change of venue to a neutral third party environment. The right of discovery should have been observed, with defense investigators being given access to Kronos One.

Did President Wimp even try?

Why would the people of the Federation be willing to extend any level of aid to the Klingon Empire after such a trial?

What do today's governments do other than issue official condemnations? Politics and principles rarely line up the way people think they 'should'. And, anyway, you just answered your own question. Because the Federation president is a wimp.

 

[Ithekro]

The Federation President is trying to prevent a war from starting. His Starfleet advisors think they can easily defeat the Klingon Empire in its current state. However the President is following Federation principles of peace if at all possible. Kirk is the olive branch, be it as the captain of the starship sent to pick up the Klingons, or as the gift to the Klingons to keep the peace process moving. It is clear the more level headed members of the Klingon government still want to talk peace, but have to save face with their warriors. Thus Kirk's trial and a change of venue to Khitomer.