The Kobayashi Maru Test

[Franklin]

I don't know. If I was a cadet who was training in this simulation, I wouldn't come up with the conclusion that we beat the no-win scenario, I'd say that the whole program crashed and that resulted in things acting out of the ordinary. Nothing Kirk did in the simulation even hinted that what was about to happen happened. It just did. So not only is Kirk acting like an incompetent rookie who refuses to understand how things work, he does it in a way that not only disrespects every other cadet in the simulation, but also the ones who designed the bloody thing.

It's like if a student cheated on a essay he/she was supposed to write about a book they just read, and when they were caught, they'd simply say the book is useless because they don't believe it will have any relevance in their life, just like what Kirk thought about the no-win scenario. And what do we do in the end? We turn this kid into the teacher of the class.

I agree. To go from a penalty for cheating to a commendation for original thinking would need a lot more thought behind how and why this was done. As it was portrayed, it seemed a rather juvenile act of rebellion - not a defining stand.

Well, bear in mind this is how Kirk did it this time, under these circumstances. Things may have been entirely different in the other timeline when Kirk took the test. Maybe that time, it was more about taking a stand than grandstanding. In the other timeline, what he did may have been commendable. But I agree, while he may think he's making a point, I saw nothing to really commend here in how he did it.

Of course, the point is, in both timelines, Kirk was irked by the inability to win in the test, and did something about it both times. In a third timeline, Kirk would've done it, too. Probably for the same reason, and probably a third way. As long as each "solution" seems in character each time given the different circumstances, then that's what should matter.

 

[TK421]

I loved it. A real highlight for me.

 

[Qonos]

Or Kirk acted the way he did because he knew everybody was watching. Notice the body language. The looks to the window all DURING the test. Knowing he was being watched and using his body language to say see what I did. Knowing at the exact moment the test would be winable. Remember there is more to a scene and acting that just what is said and how it's said. The body and mannerisms come into play. Where you see cocky and Arrogant I see a person going "Look I beat it, now YOU figure out how I did it."

He took the test twice, he failed it twice. Spock was no less a tool in the court martial scene becoming the same as the Vulcan Science academy was to him when they said "You did well despite your disadvantage"... His "You of all people should know about a No-Win scenerio." Remember Winnning is as subjective as art. George Kirk lost his life, but he saved his Wife and Kid, a win in my books.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

The writers here recognized the basic problem with Kirk cheating on a test - basically, if he does it in such a way as to avoid being caught, he's a dick who we cannot respect - and portrayed his defiance of the whole notion of the thing excellently. This is one of my favorite sequences in the movie.

Spock is bemused by how Kirk could have beaten the test because of his own pride and his underestimation of the kid on the other side of the window who's playing cowboys and indians with the simulator viewscreen. That Kirk cheated is obvious - and ought to be - that he could have hacked Spock's program is unthinkable. And of course, in Spock's chilly self-isolation the notion that someone would have chosen to help Kirk does not immediately occur to him.

Yes --

Cheating "simply because he wanted to win" was not the point. That would be an asshole move and we would lose respect for Kirk if he simply "cheated to win".

Winning is not the reason for Kirk chaeting...it goes beyond wanting to win. The point was that he could cheat to beat the test, and that's why he was flaunting the fact that he cheated -- he wanted to make a statement.

 

[theFirebottle]

Arguably, Kirk missed the entire point of the test. From the perspective of training and examination, the Kobayashi Maru is a psychological assessment of command styles and reactions, not a measure of "success" or "failure". It's not like a flight simulator where the pilot is judged on ability to react to and respond to hypothetical challenges in flying. It's a personality test writ large with a built-in teaching component. Can you fail a personality questionnaire?

It's a question with no right or wrong answers, which means that even though Kirk appears to have missed the point, his answer (altering the scenario itself by any means possible) is still valid.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

^
^^ Good point -- that IS the true meaning of the test...and this would be true for the "Prime Timeline" Kirk also, not just Pine's Kirk.

But like you said, it doesn't make Kirk's solution any less valid, nor does it make the scene in the film any less worthy of being there. Whether or not Kirk understands the true meaning of the test is not relevant to this film or TWoK.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I think Kirk has a perfectly valid point. The test is to gauge responses to a no-win scenario, but Kirk does not believe such a thing could ever exist. So what's the point in testing something that can't exist?

 

[Phily B]

Anyone else think Kirk would've looked like a massive dickhead if he had just made the test slightly easier and hopes no one notices? He knew the test was unwinnable, so he made it winnable quite easily. There was no way anyone could beat the test without cheating. I think putting in a scene where he fails it for the first time -might- have worked, and made more sense, but that probably would've disrupted the flow of the movie.

 

[theFirebottle]

I think Kirk has a perfectly valid point. The test is to gauge responses to a no-win scenario, but Kirk does not believe such a thing could ever exist. So what's the point in testing something that can't exist?

But a catastrophic cascade of unrecoverable events can occur whether Kirk believes it or not. Just because he's Kirk doesn't mean he's correct. The test is stupidly contrived as it is, but it would be pretty easy to come up with a scenario that didn't immediately jump to suspension-of-disbelief-defying problems.

The no-win scenario is a distraction: what the assessors really want to know is how the cadet responds under extreme stress when faced with certain disaster. Will the cadet lock up or panic? Will the cadet do something ethically questionable? Will the cadet do something stupid? Will the cadet behave in a manner that could jeopardize diplomacy, strategic policy, or the lives of the crew unnecessarily?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Anyone else think Kirk would've looked like a massive dickhead if he had just made the test slightly easier and hopes no one notices? He knew the test was unwinnable, so he made it winnable quite easily.

Exactly. The point wasn't to hide what he'd done. The point wasn't even to win the test. The point was to make it extremely obvious what he'd done, to demonstrate how useless it was to even have the test at all.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Anyone else think Kirk would've looked like a massive dickhead if he had just made the test slightly easier and hopes no one notices? He knew the test was unwinnable, so he made it winnable quite easily. There was no way anyone could beat the test without cheating.

Yes -- Kirk's reason for reprogramming the test wasn't so he could win...it was to prove that he could find a way to win. He cheated in such an obvious manner that we all know he wasn't trying to "get away with it". He wanted poeple to know that he cheated. It was a version of "civil disobedience".

If he tried to get away with it he would be -- as you said -- a dickhead.

 

[trampledamage]

I think Kirk has a perfectly valid point. The test is to gauge responses to a no-win scenario, but Kirk does not believe such a thing could ever exist. So what's the point in testing something that can't exist?

But a catastrophic cascade of unrecoverable events can occur whether Kirk believes it or not. Just because he's Kirk doesn't mean he's correct. The test is stupidly contrived as it is, but it would be pretty easy to come up with a scenario that didn't immediately jump to suspension-of-disbelief-defying problems.

The no-win scenario is a distraction: what the assessors really want to know is how the cadet responds under extreme stress when faced with certain disaster. Will the cadet lock up or panic? Will the cadet do something ethically questionable? Will the cadet do something stupid? Will the cadet behave in a manner that could jeopardize diplomacy, strategic policy, or the lives of the crew unnecessarily?

Well, they'd already had plenty of time to see that, since this was Kirk's third time of taking the test. And I would think they would get a lot of useful information about his character from the fact that he just would not give up.

 

[theFirebottle]

Well, they'd already had plenty of time to see that, since this was Kirk's third time of taking the test. And I would think they would get a lot of useful information about his character from the fact that he just would not give up.

Which is why they even let people take it multiple times. The more info they get on someone on the command-track, the easier it is for them to make their decision.

They could easily have justified charging him with academic misconduct not because he "cheated" on a personality test but because he abused Academy computing resources to do so. If you can rewrite the Kobayashi Maru, then you can probably pull off all sorts of genuine academic misconduct. It's kind of a serious breach of Academy computing security!

EDIT: Plus multiple re-takes mean multiple teaching moments. Someone who wants to retake the test has seriously considered their performance and the parameters of the test and thinks they can do better. The more they throw themselves against it, the more they improve their response.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

^
^^ They could have easily charged him with misconduct -- but they didn't.

Both this movie and TWoK establishes that Starfleet was "impressed" with Kirk's solution. Even if it is primarily a Personality test, Kirk's solution to the test probably ranks as a highlight in his Starfleet Academy "Personality and Aptitude File".

 

[Qonos]

Kirk's write up for the tests probably looks like this.


Kirk, James T.

While his first two attempts at the Kobiashi Maru were baseline, we learned much about this command canidate. His willingness to retake the test not once but twice proves he has a tenacity that is admirable.

The results of his third "Test" and how he "BEAT" the test showed his ability for fast thinking, stategic planning, and a flash of brilliance. Although unorthodox, the student shows the potential to be a fine Starship Captain someday.

 

[indranee]

I think those people who think it made him look like a brat need to re-assess what a brat is because they obviously don't know and clearly have a hard time reading people from their actions and persona.

no, they're doing it because it's not the Shatman. they wouldn't ever dream of calling Shatner's Kirk a "brat" for doing exactly the same thing that Pine's Kirk does.

it's an understandable (though, not laudable) reaction from "Shatner's Kirk" fans toward Pine's Kirk. I've expected it and here it is.

 

[theFirebottle]

The results of his third "Test" and how he "BEAT" the test showed his ability for fast thinking, stategic planning, and a flash of brilliance. Although unorthodox, the student shows the potential to be a fine Starship Captain someday.

Heh, I disagree. Pre-programming a hack demonstrates an aptitude for subterfuge, manipulation of social resources (he farmed out the implementation of the security breach and almost certainly the coding of the hack to someone else), and meticulous planning in advance (slow thinking). The actual execution was not so much a "flash of brilliance" as a moment of triumph after what was probably weeks of sneaking around.

The fact that he tried this based on a fundamental philosophical disagreement with the scenario demonstrates that he thought about the test at a metalevel, which is something teachers are always excited to see.

 

[indranee]

Arguably, Kirk missed the entire point of the test. From the perspective of training and examination, the Kobayashi Maru is a psychological assessment of command styles and reactions, not a measure of "success" or "failure". It's not like a flight simulator where the pilot is judged on ability to react to and respond to hypothetical challenges in flying. It's a personality test writ large with a built-in teaching component. Can you fail a personality questionnaire?

It's a question with no right or wrong answers, which means that even though Kirk appears to have missed the point, his answer (altering the scenario itself by any means possible) is still valid.

yep, and that WAS the point of TWOK. that Kirk hadn't faced death, he'd cheated it.

check out The Search for Spock -- Kirk says so.

This scene (and the whole point of the significance of Kirk's cheating in the test) is the foreshadowing of what happened in TWOK. the interesting thing is that now -- because we're watching the alternate timeline -- we don't really know if TWOK happens.

I love it!

 

[Mr. Adventure]

KOBYASHI MARU TEST RESULTS
SUBJECT: KIRK, JAMES T.

PROJECTED PROBABILITIES:
Insubordination to Superior Officers: 100%
Stealing Federation Starship for Personal Use: 95%
Disobeying Direct Orders: 100%
Violating Prime Directive: 100%
Single-Handedly Saving Earth: 100%
Single-Handedly Saving Earth 10x: 95%
Single-Handedly Saving Earth 100x: 90%
Single-Handedly Saving Galaxy: 85%

CONCLUSION: PROMOTE IMMEDIATELY, GIVE ORIGINAL THINKING COMMENDATION

 

[TheArsenal]

It was the third time he took the test. To me that's significant. Because he's James T. Kirk, we're almost certain the first two times he took it he demonstrated the qualities the test was designed to draw out; leadership and steadiness in the face of certain death. If that's the case, then there's is nothing left to demonstrate the third time around other than Kirk showing he does not believe in no win scenarios, and that he has the intelligence and cleverness to alter the test.

But, that's kind of beside the point I feel. The Koybayashi Maru Test is positioned to serve a slightly different purpose in this film than it did in the "prime" film's time line. In Khan, altering the test serves to say something exclusively about Kirk. He will not lose. In the new film, it says say something about Kirk's philosophy, certainly. But it also there to cement the early adversarial relationship between Kirk and Spock; to show this cadet's abilities and temperament in direct relation to Spock's. I think the cockiness of Kirk is needed to play this out to maximum effect. The humor in that scene contrasts with Spock's perceived callousness in the "cheating" scene. Kirk is having a laugh, Spock destroy his career over it not bringing up Kirk's dad along the way.

It is one of the many factors that must be overcome that makes their eventual friendship satisfying.