The Klingon Journalists
- Thread starter Drago-Kazov
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Drago-Kazov
Fleet Captain
For the smooth foreheaded guys yes, but later no. Remember when Kurn went to Worf to be killed?
Which proves what exactly in regards to "honor"?
Drago-Kazov
Fleet Captain
He would rather die then live in dishonor.
Yet, Worf who tried to be the Klingon's Klingon, never went that far when his honor was seen as "lacking". In fact it seems there are more than a few ways to avoid "the death before dishonor" fate. Not sure Kurns actions are indicative of Klingons as a whole. I might even guess that by going to Worf, he was hoping for a way out.
Do we have any evidence, in the few episodes the "smooth heads" appeared that they wouldn't feel the same way? What was dishonorable about the actions of Kor, Koloth and Kang in the episodes they appeared in. Especially in the context of Klingon society?
...Or in the human context, even?
All the TOS Klingons engaged in activity the "Kahlessian" Klingons of TNG would have found dishonorable. Kor took hostages, which is a no-no, although quite possibly the ban only applies to human(oid) shields rather than hostages-to-promise. Koloth sponsored the use of disguise and poison as weapons, although this could be said to be bad only in personal struggles such as the quest for Chancellorship. Kras failed to keep his word to the Capellans, although it was on a point that made no sense to begin with. And Kang did not honor Kirk's flag of truce, although this has never been an established Klingon virtue, quite to the contrary.
It doesn't seem as if the average human would find fault in these Klingons' behavior, except of course for the trivial point that they were the enemy and thus entitled to nothing. If Kahlessian Klingons found fault, it would also probably mostly be because they wanted to pick a fight and the ambiguous teachings of Kahless offer endless opportunities for that! Any human dealing with religion would find that quite familiar, too.
Timo Saloniemi
All the TOS Klingons engaged in activity the "Kahlessian" Klingons of TNG would have found dishonorable. Kor took hostages, which is a no-no, although quite possibly the ban only applies to human(oid) shields rather than hostages-to-promise. Koloth sponsored the use of disguise and poison as weapons, although this could be said to be bad only in personal struggles such as the quest for Chancellorship. Kras failed to keep his word to the Capellans, although it was on a point that made no sense to begin with. And Kang did not honor Kirk's flag of truce, although this has never been an established Klingon virtue, quite to the contrary.
It doesn't seem as if the average human would find fault in these Klingons' behavior, except of course for the trivial point that they were the enemy and thus entitled to nothing. If Kahlessian Klingons found fault, it would also probably mostly be because they wanted to pick a fight and the ambiguous teachings of Kahless offer endless opportunities for that! Any human dealing with religion would find that quite familiar, too.
Timo Saloniemi
The "no hostage" thing seems to be Worf's usual bluster about Klingon "honor". Its not like Korris avoided grabbing the girl as a living shield to begin with.
The use of poison seem to be limited to assassination rather then contamination of a food supply. Of course it was Darvin who poisoned the grain, not Koloth. I'm not sure Koloth was privy to the operations of the Klingon Intelligence service and it's operatives. Seems very unlikely that an Intelligence gathering organization would be opposed to the use of disguise. Kang was under the influence of an alien at the time, so his actions are not truly his own.
The use of poison seem to be limited to assassination rather then contamination of a food supply. Of course it was Darvin who poisoned the grain, not Koloth. I'm not sure Koloth was privy to the operations of the Klingon Intelligence service and it's operatives. Seems very unlikely that an Intelligence gathering organization would be opposed to the use of disguise. Kang was under the influence of an alien at the time, so his actions are not truly his own.
Drago-Kazov
Fleet Captain
Myk posted:
Didn'd he asked to be killed by Worf? If he was looking for a way out he would had started a gang on Turkana 4 or something instead of asking to be killed.
It is still a dishonorable machiavellian way to kill someone.
Worf is not klingon's Klingon. He grew up in the Federation. h is different. Martok or Korok is a Klingon's klingon.
Didn'd he asked to be killed by Worf? If he was looking for a way out he would had started a gang on Turkana 4 or something instead of asking to be killed.
It is still a dishonorable machiavellian way to kill someone.
Which is why he's the Klingon's Klingon. He has to out Klingon all others because he was raised in the UFP.
He knew Worf would find away around the death thing the moment the topic came up.
You really haven't read Machiavelli, until you've read him in the original Klingon.
Drago-Kazov
Fleet Captain
He certainly can't do that in the UFP, so he is just a poor Klingon's Klingon.
Could you show me the scene that indicates that or tell me when it happens within the episode?
I think you're misunderstanding the meaning. As a Klingon raised by humans, Worf feels the need to adhere more strictly to what the ideal Klingon is - honorable, brave, trustworthy, etc. Klingons raised among Klingon society don't feel the need to behave as ideal Klingons because they're not insecure about their nature. Worf is insecure about his heritage (or at least, he was), and compensates by allowing himself no deviation from ideal Klingon behavior. Spock behaved similarly - he had to be the Vulcan's Vulcan, because to be anything less would be a sign of weakness or an acknowledgment of a flaw.
Sorry, the targ ate it.
Drago-Kazov
Fleet Captain
He is not the most klingon klingon my standardsand he cannot do certain things becaus he is in the UFP. Picard would be freaked out by him eating the heart of his enemies after battle.
I think you're still misunderstanding the phrase. It's really about the character and his attitude towards being Klingon. How he was written an portrayed. Your standards aren't really a factor.
I'm pretty sure the Klingons don't have a free press.
The aristocrat-led military-political warrior class establishment is the sole conduit for news about the universe at large, and tells the people what they "need to know", and that's that.
The aristocrat-led military-political warrior class establishment is the sole conduit for news about the universe at large, and tells the people what they "need to know", and that's that.
would there be a press at all in the future? There is never any kind of broadcast mentioned in any of the series as far as I can remember. Wouldn't it be more logical to assume that announcements are made directly by the government and all other news would simply spread by gossip. The advanced means of communication in the Trek universeeasily equal the internet and even today the net is the information source most of us prefer.
I don't know about you but the news/information I get from the net is mostly provided by journalists. Gossip, someone on the net claiming something and announcement aren't the same as news. What do you make of any of that without having it put in context, analysed and the sources be reliable. On the net, anyone can claim anything - and many actually do. A future without a free press seems very dystopian to me.
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