The joy is gone...
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
But is it closed minded if you've tried the new and still don't like it? The new material doesn't resonate and work for me. It's little different than musical tastes.NCC621;1519894/ said:
It's close minded if you don't even try something and just write it off. But if you've tried something and it doesn't work for you then you've given it a fair shake.
If this has happened to warped9, what does that bode for the rest of us, as the new movie approaches?
number6
Vice Admiral
QFFTMF!!
No. And the Board Rules say it doesn't. Understand?
I'm still looking for the "You suck" post and I'm not finding it. Feel free to point it out to me since I'm not always the most observant this time of the afternoon.
No, I don't.
Look people, there are plenty of other forums and plenty of other threads in this one to post in. Getting in a massive pissing contest is this one is not going to lead anywhere good.
I can see where Warped is coming from though. If you're in another area (such as the movie) and mention something you don't like, just as mentioning it as something you don't like, you're going to be attacked. And, more often than not, since you're going against the 'group', even the moderator seems to go right along with it.
To me, Trek is a huge franchise that encompasses a lot of things and everyone should find things they like about it pretty easily. But I suspect that, for a large number of 'fans', it's not really about liking Star Trek, but being part of the 'group', and they'll hit that pecking order and hatred the moment that a perceived outsider shows up and dares open his mouth.
While this sounds ridiculous, and really should be, proof of this is already in this thread. How long did it take for someone to post 'all these hateful people are TOS-onlies', etc? Not all that long.
So if your goal isn't to impress everyone at the urinal, and you just want to kick back and enjoy Trek and shoot the shit with other Trek fans, it's getting harder and harder to actually do it.
To me, Trek is a huge franchise that encompasses a lot of things and everyone should find things they like about it pretty easily. But I suspect that, for a large number of 'fans', it's not really about liking Star Trek, but being part of the 'group', and they'll hit that pecking order and hatred the moment that a perceived outsider shows up and dares open his mouth.
While this sounds ridiculous, and really should be, proof of this is already in this thread. How long did it take for someone to post 'all these hateful people are TOS-onlies', etc? Not all that long.
So if your goal isn't to impress everyone at the urinal, and you just want to kick back and enjoy Trek and shoot the shit with other Trek fans, it's getting harder and harder to actually do it.
I hear you, I've totally lost all interest in the Sopranos. You can read all about it in my forthcoming eight hundred page tome: 'I've Lost All Interest In The Sopranos by Ensign Ricky'. Hey, maybe we can meet up during my twelve week fourteen city book signing tour. I've dedicated the better part of the last two years of my life to this project, and I must say I'm rather proud of it.
number6
Vice Admiral
You can check out all of my photomanips of Sinclair-era B5 episodes, but don't talk to me about Sheridan. That show ceased to exist to me once Sinclair was written out of the show. Anyone who talks to me about Sheridan and how great he was will be smacked down and ridiculed. The best part of B5 were the Sinclair years. Anyone who thinks otherwise isn't a true fan and is an insult to true fans everywhere. And don't get me started on that post modern crap like the Rangers or Crusade. You're just asking for a fight, buddy.
I think no matter how much you love something you can hit a saturation point. Also as you get older your tastes don't so much change as broaden and diversify.
Trek changed over the years and it changed into something that I don't identify with anymore. You can fall in and out of love with a sport or a type of music or whatever. I used to enjoy going out to a club dancing on the weekend, but the crowd and the music has changed and it doesn't hold the same appeal anymore.
I like watching a lot of older movies on TCM because I see a lot of things there that I find missing in many of today's films. Most comedy films and sitcoms today just leave me stone cold. I find their humour obvious and unimaginative and not in the least bit clever.
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My son studies composition at a local conservatory, and I have wondered aloud to some of the teachers why, oh why, there are so few composers these days that work in the late Baroque style. After all, I love that music. There must be others that love it and would want more of it. Why must we be limited to just the seventy years or so of pointed articulation and nuanced dynamics, ornamentation and counterpoint? They'd mention an odd modern Baroque composer like Giorgio Pacchioni, or a neo-Baroque like Paul Hindemith, and I'd smile. They just didn't get it, and no wonder -- I wasn't asking the question I wanted answered. It's the same question I've asked about classical liberalism or Roman revival architecture or the writing of Thoreau or the abundance of wildlife that used to exist on the Great Plains. Or about Star Trek. Why does it all have to change?. Why the hell can't the world slow down on its axis and be a little less Toffler and a little more Ludd?
I don't know what to say. There's a point to such sentiment. Change is blindly accepted as progress. I sometimes wonder that if we had ever happened to create a utopia, like Adam and Eve before us we wouldn't realize our good fortune and ruin it seeking improvement. But then again, we are adaptable creatures, and new circumstances stimulate new ways of thinking. We could only wish that the change would be more of what we like and less of what we don't, instead of the opposite. But the fact that it doesn't work out that way, oh... that says much about us and the world we inhabit! It is ironic that the world Roddenberry described is a world where man is unaffected by technology unbound, and where instead of synergy and interactive change between man and his environment there is mastery and the dream of man being carried on a wave of benign progress.
Maybe we love Star Trek because we love that dream -- that we can somehow retain the innocence of children while commanding the resources of adults. The dream of Peter Pan. It's a beautiful and hopeless dream, and one I still enjoy in a sad and perfunctory kind of way. But one I still enjoy, nonetheless.
I don't know what to say. There's a point to such sentiment. Change is blindly accepted as progress. I sometimes wonder that if we had ever happened to create a utopia, like Adam and Eve before us we wouldn't realize our good fortune and ruin it seeking improvement. But then again, we are adaptable creatures, and new circumstances stimulate new ways of thinking. We could only wish that the change would be more of what we like and less of what we don't, instead of the opposite. But the fact that it doesn't work out that way, oh... that says much about us and the world we inhabit! It is ironic that the world Roddenberry described is a world where man is unaffected by technology unbound, and where instead of synergy and interactive change between man and his environment there is mastery and the dream of man being carried on a wave of benign progress.
Maybe we love Star Trek because we love that dream -- that we can somehow retain the innocence of children while commanding the resources of adults. The dream of Peter Pan. It's a beautiful and hopeless dream, and one I still enjoy in a sad and perfunctory kind of way. But one I still enjoy, nonetheless.
In observing that aridas has now elevated the intellectual level of this thread to the point that it's unrecognizable, I want to make it clear that I'm not taking a backhanded swipe at the intelligence of anyone else here - particularly me.
I didn't post that; at most I quoted it. vBulletin has its quirks, eh?
In the 1970s, creative fans made their own "Star Trek" to the best of their abilities because Paramount wouldn't. Fans are still doing this, utilizing increasingly sophisticated technology and social networking. That's a positive alternative to resenting what Hollywood produces or resenting the fact that so many people enjoy it instead of sharing an enthusiasm for the older versions.
I didn't post that; at most I quoted it. vBulletin has its quirks, eh?
In the 1970s, creative fans made their own "Star Trek" to the best of their abilities because Paramount wouldn't. Fans are still doing this, utilizing increasingly sophisticated technology and social networking. That's a positive alternative to resenting what Hollywood produces or resenting the fact that so many people enjoy it instead of sharing an enthusiasm for the older versions.
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As an airplane modeler, I still find WWII the most interesting period to model. variety of subjects, attractiveness of color schemes, designs ranging from the end of the biplane period to the beginning of the jet age.
Modern aircraft? Very little variety, very little 'new' or 'original' in many, many years, and generally all painted gray.
Now THERE's a good analogy for Trek!
Modern aircraft? Very little variety, very little 'new' or 'original' in many, many years, and generally all painted gray.
Now THERE's a good analogy for Trek!
And on that point I've written stories of the kind that TPTB won't do anymore, I develop projects that reflect aspects of Star Trek that we never got to see and I'm trying to write original SF that perpetuates aspects of Star Trek that TPTB now ignore.
I read aridas sofia's post, first with the overwhelmed senses, and then with understanding, admiration, and then finally an enthusiastic devotion, that unfortunately burned itself out by the third paragraph. I couldn't even bring myself to finish it. I have succumbed to ennui. I blame MTV.
My enthusiasm for Trek has waxed and waned. I took a ten year break from it when I was raising the kids. I've been on this BBS now for eight years and some of my liking has gone a bit dormant again, because I've talked it out.
I still read some of the books, especially any of the DS9 relaunch books. I've also seen some of the fan produced films and I'm way behind in watching them with a backlog of ones to see.
I figure at some point, the TOS-DS9 love will return and I'll watch stuff again. I am looking forward to the new movie.
Warped9, I have to disagree with you. There was plenty of good Trek after TOS (and plenty of BAD Trek too. Of course, TOS had both good and bad Trek.) Even though TNG seems to have been the most popular modern Trek, I personally prefer DS9 and find it closest in spirit to TOS. VOY and ENT weren't bad, but they misfired a lot, IMO.
Arguing with people over which is better or fighting over Trek never appealed to me. I recognize that no matter how much I grimace, some people are enthusiastic over Seven of Nine (or in TOS, Helen Noel
) I just accept that and move on. Life's too short to argue or get upset over what was a show designed to sell laundry soap or other products to viewers.
I still read some of the books, especially any of the DS9 relaunch books. I've also seen some of the fan produced films and I'm way behind in watching them with a backlog of ones to see.
I figure at some point, the TOS-DS9 love will return and I'll watch stuff again. I am looking forward to the new movie.
Warped9, I have to disagree with you. There was plenty of good Trek after TOS (and plenty of BAD Trek too. Of course, TOS had both good and bad Trek.) Even though TNG seems to have been the most popular modern Trek, I personally prefer DS9 and find it closest in spirit to TOS. VOY and ENT weren't bad, but they misfired a lot, IMO.
Arguing with people over which is better or fighting over Trek never appealed to me. I recognize that no matter how much I grimace, some people are enthusiastic over Seven of Nine (or in TOS, Helen Noel
) I just accept that and move on. Life's too short to argue or get upset over what was a show designed to sell laundry soap or other products to viewers.
"Better" is subjective to a large extent. We've all witnessed things other people like or that are even popular that we cannot stand.
The TBBS or any message board is another aspect of this as well. You post a lot when you first sign on, but after a while you see the same questions and the same subjects over and over again. You get talked out.
The TBBS or any message board is another aspect of this as well. You post a lot when you first sign on, but after a while you see the same questions and the same subjects over and over again. You get talked out.
Mmmmmmmmmmm.... Helen Noel. It's a guy thing. 
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