*sighs*
Ok. Not good enough for me, but I've been around the fandom long enough to know that my opinion regarding the "rule of cool" will always be regarded poorly.
Spoilers The Jedi: Good? Bad? Where do we see them?
- Thread starter fireproof78
- Start date
Ok. Not good enough for me, but I've been around the fandom long enough to know that my opinion regarding the "rule of cool" will always be regarded poorly.
Cool is usually the hook needed to get people’s interest.
Some are. Some aren’t. But I can’t imagine Star Wars without the Jedi and Sith, they are what gives it its unique flavor.
Sometimes even smart people want a big bag of dumb to escape to.
Relax, I was being facetious.
The reality is that the force and by extension, the Jedi and are the one real defining element of the franchise. Spaceships? Everyone's got those. Lasers? Common. Hyperspace? 8/10 sci-fi franchises has some version of this. Aliens? Same. Magical telekinetic, mind controlling space wizard monks with laser swords? That's pretty unique.
So why would anyone running the franchise ever permanently get rid of them?
Aside from that, Jedi are the source and solution to most of the core drama of the setting. Even if a given story has nothing ostensibly to do with them directly, their presence or absence defines what goes on in the galaxy, one way or another. A Star Wars galaxy totally without even a hint Jedi would just be another generic, John Carter derived space adventure. The spiritual element; That's what makes Star Wars Star Wars. The idea the even if the story is about some small homesteader struggling against a corrupt landlord, or a young operator looking to make their way in the world of high enterprise or politics; there's always the underpinning of something more epic and fundamentally important going on. The light and the dark aren't just the purview of the space wizards, it affects and is affected by the actions of everyone, great and small. The space wizards and their emo counterparts are just the most visible and stark expression of this.
There's a reason why Stackpole decided to make Corran Horn force sensitive, why even the Droids cartoon had a random lightsaber scene, why Rogue One ends by showing us what happens when regular soldiers go up against a Sith, and why Solo ended by showing us who's really running the underworld; without the force in there somewhere (if only in concept) then it's not really Star Wars, is it?
The "cool" part is just the surface level. The book's cover if you will. It's one thing to subjectively not like a particular cover, but it'd be pretty ludicrous to bemoan the existence of covers at all, no? How many people are going to pick up a book nothing but blank, featureless paper on the outside?
I did not say get rid of the Force. I'm asking, based on the evidence presented in the stories of the Jedi and their portrayal in the films and shows is it a good thing that they return?
I get the idea but the appeal to franchise popularity and iconography is missing the point of this discussion.
Maybe, but I'm a pretty ludicrous person and find covers annoying, if not downright manipulative.
Joke...
Which brings us back to; good for who exactly?
ETA: Also, as I outlined back at the start, the Jedi aren't some monolithic thing; there mostly an ideal. How good or bad they are is subjective.
That is the question. Because what is presented in the PT to the OT to the Mandalorian is that the Jedi have significant flaws that don't mean a whole lot of good, save for what the main characters that without the Jedi there can be no balance to the Force. So, I guess we just accept that, no questions asked?
Where in the franchise does anyone make that assertion objectively? The only time it's ever even brought up is to directly refuse that very premise.
Lor San Tekka says it at the start of Force Awakens. Don't know about objective perspective though.
Objective speaks to authorial intent (always dubious with anything from JJA, I know), but Lor San Tekka was mostly stating an opinion about the state of affairs there and then, and he's largely correct. At that time, in those circumstances, the Jedi were the galaxy's only hope or balance. In another time, in another place, maybe it's the Aquillian Rangers or the Imperial Knights, or the Sisters of Dathomir.
I recall Lucas saying something about the Jedi being right but I cannot find the quote, and/or I am misremembering.
The Jedi order probably started out with good people and good intentions. But with almost anything.. A slow creep of bureaucracy, of what we have must be maintained of rot.
After the defeat of the Sith a 1000 years earlier they became the guardians of peace. The Republic had no army. All there was were the Jedi going around mediating /keeping the peace. 1000s of Jedi .. And in that huge organization, stagnation. Build up of layer after layer of internal rot. Internal politics peace minded Jedi against warrior Jedi.
We're kids always taken at a young age? Basically drafted , taken away and told your going to be a soldier for the Republic? How's that better than Finn and other storm troopers?
We're Jedi allways un attached?
We're they allowed to leave like Ashoka?
Also, I think Yoda had a hand in it.. 900 years. Even if he grew slow like Grogu, maybe 200 before he grew up, that would still leave 700 years of Yoda being a Padawan, then a knight, then master, then grand master. His vision lead for hundreds of years.. And it fell at his lead.
After the defeat of the Sith a 1000 years earlier they became the guardians of peace. The Republic had no army. All there was were the Jedi going around mediating /keeping the peace. 1000s of Jedi .. And in that huge organization, stagnation. Build up of layer after layer of internal rot. Internal politics peace minded Jedi against warrior Jedi.
We're kids always taken at a young age? Basically drafted , taken away and told your going to be a soldier for the Republic? How's that better than Finn and other storm troopers?
We're Jedi allways un attached?
We're they allowed to leave like Ashoka?
Also, I think Yoda had a hand in it.. 900 years. Even if he grew slow like Grogu, maybe 200 before he grew up, that would still leave 700 years of Yoda being a Padawan, then a knight, then master, then grand master. His vision lead for hundreds of years.. And it fell at his lead.
I am under the impression that the families had the option to no give their child to the Jedi, though a force user might be dangerous untrained, so there could be a risk no having them go Jedi. But there are other places for force users that aren't Jedi or Sith. Especially on planets like Jedha.
Not sure if it's been done in a comic or novel, but it would be interesting if a future show/movie tackled just how the Jedi go about taking children from their families. Is there a choice? There is a precedent with rejecting trainees - Anakin and the council/Yoda with Luke initially. Is it like Xavier's School for the Gifted, where other force users are the best ones to help get their powers under control? Or maybe it's like Harry Potter where they keep pestering you to join their great school with flying LOLA's delivering letters.
The whole idea of Jedi younglings being taken from their families for training, never to see them again, NEVER sat well with me.
At. All.
As a father of two (now grown) kids, the Jedi would have had to step over my steaming corpse to walk away with one of my kids, and I don't imagine it being different for most parents under most circumstances. The Jedi Order would have been the most hated, vilified organization in the galaxy. The honor or prestige (if there ever was any) of becoming a Jedi would not have come close to trumping the idea that I'd be separated forever from my kid, who would be raised by strangers.
I much prefer the idea (which was established in the comics and such up until the moment of TPM's release) that the Jedi are recruited late in childhood and near puberty, and go away for training like a kid might go to boarding or military school, but not under the concept that they'll never see their families again. Jedi should have been part and parcel of their cultures and societies, not separated or held above them. They should have been allowed to marry and procreate, thus giving credence to the idea that Force sensitivity can run in family lines, like it did for the Skywalkers and the Halcyons of Corellia. They wouldn't have lived in temples in seclusion, but among the people they were sworn to serve. There would have been Jedi doctors, military leaders, law enforcement officers, teachers, you name it.
Anyway.
At. All.
As a father of two (now grown) kids, the Jedi would have had to step over my steaming corpse to walk away with one of my kids, and I don't imagine it being different for most parents under most circumstances. The Jedi Order would have been the most hated, vilified organization in the galaxy. The honor or prestige (if there ever was any) of becoming a Jedi would not have come close to trumping the idea that I'd be separated forever from my kid, who would be raised by strangers.
I much prefer the idea (which was established in the comics and such up until the moment of TPM's release) that the Jedi are recruited late in childhood and near puberty, and go away for training like a kid might go to boarding or military school, but not under the concept that they'll never see their families again. Jedi should have been part and parcel of their cultures and societies, not separated or held above them. They should have been allowed to marry and procreate, thus giving credence to the idea that Force sensitivity can run in family lines, like it did for the Skywalkers and the Halcyons of Corellia. They wouldn't have lived in temples in seclusion, but among the people they were sworn to serve. There would have been Jedi doctors, military leaders, law enforcement officers, teachers, you name it.
Anyway.
I agree about someone coming for my kids, though we live in relative prosperity in 21st century Western countries.
Most of the Star Wars Galaxy seems to be made up of poor backwater worlds, for many parents they likely see the Jedi as the only means of escape and a decent life. So they have to play by their rules.
Same here. The whole 'no attachments" thing gets under my skin more quickly than anything else.
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