The Inevitability of the Borg?

[exodus]

On come on, 9 eps. out of 105 and you're considering that allot?
If it was money, we'd be pretty bad accountants.

Besides, "Raven" is more about Seven than it is about the Borg themselves. Therefore "Raven" isn't a Borg ep..
We don't veiw eps. about Odo after the discovery of the Dominion, Dominion based eps.

 

[Saxman1]

I agree with the earlier poster: TNG killed the Borg as effective villans with "I Borg." After BOBW, they shouldn't have been heard from again, although I do think VOY's "Drone" and ENT's "Regeneration" were good outings.

 

[Garth Rockett]

On come on, 9 eps. out of 105 and you're considering that allot?

Where did I say I thought it was a lot? I said it was not insignificant, which is another matter. That averages out to twice a season, which is twice as much as TNG averaged with the Borg after they were introduced. And again, I think there were more than 9 episodes that featured significant Borg use. Just because they weren't the main thrust of the plot didn't mean they weren't (over)used.

Besides, "Raven" is more about Seven than it is about the Borg themselves. Therefore "Raven" isn't a Borg ep..
We don't veiw eps. about Odo after the discovery of the Dominion, Dominion based eps.

"The Raven" is about Seven's relationship and history with the Borg, and how that impacts her. In other words, the presence of the Borg is a significant element of the story, which is the criteria I'm using in determining how much Voyager used the Borg in the later seasons.

Your Odo example is a non sequitur. I never said I considered every Seven episode a Borg episode.

 

[exodus]

On come on, 9 eps. out of 105 and you're considering that allot?

Where did I say I thought it was a lot? I said it was not insignificant, which is another matter. That averages out to twice a season, which is twice as much as TNG averaged with the Borg after they were introduced. And again, I think there were more than 9 episodes that featured significant Borg use. Just because they weren't the main thrust of the plot didn't mean they weren't (over)used.

Besides, "Raven" is more about Seven than it is about the Borg themselves. Therefore "Raven" isn't a Borg ep..
We don't veiw eps. about Odo after the discovery of the Dominion, Dominion based eps.

"The Raven" is about Seven's relationship and history with the Borg, and how that impacts her. In other words, the presence of the Borg is a significant element of the story, which is the criteria I'm using in determining how much Voyager used the Borg in the later seasons.

Your Odo example is a non sequitur. I never said I considered every Seven episode a Borg episode.

Besides the 9 out of 105 eps., I never said you said anything else.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But how many of those 9 were double episodes or season enders or season primers? Which is where the focus is compared to the more disposable episodes... Is it my imagination or were the Bee's saving the Time travel and/or Borg stories for themselves probably limiting everyone else's use of these story lubricators because they well... Wanted to write/save the easy stories for sweeps or season renewal come episode 26?

the question of Borg origins?

MAGNUS [OC]: field notes, U.S.S. Raven, Stardate 32629.4: after three months of tracking our Borg cube, the vessel entered a transwarp conduit. We followed in its wake. Our sensors tell us we've travelled all the way to the Delta quadrant, the Borg's native territory.

Of course that could be a conclusion they came up with while following the Borg, since it was never said on Screen where the El-Urian home world was really situated that their intelligence on the Borg could be that expansive.

 

[Garth Rockett]

I think I misunderstood the post I was referring to. Sorry.

 

[Garth Rockett]

Besides the 9 out of 105 eps., I never said you said anything else.

No, but for your Odo example to hold water, you would have to assume I viewed every Seven episode as a Borg episode, which I don't. Otherwise, I don't know why you'd bring that up.

 

[Mr. Fergy]

Borg on Voyager? Is this too much of a good thing?

 

[exodus]

Besides the 9 out of 105 eps., I never said you said anything else.

No, but for your Odo example to hold water, you would have to assume I viewed every Seven episode as a Borg episode, which I don't. Otherwise, I don't know why you'd bring that up.

That would be called giving an example by comparison, nothing more.

Honestly, does it really matter?

 

[Garth Rockett]

That would be called giving an example by comparison, nothing more.

And my point was that the comparison doesn't hold water, and is pointless to make unless incorrect assumptions were made about my position. Nothing more.

Honestly, does it really matter?

Not really. I was just addressing the statements as they were made. All part of a discussion.

 

[exodus]

Not really.

Apparently it does because you're still talking about it no matter what my reasons were behind it.

 

[Deckerd]

The word 'inevitability' to me, is forever linked to Hugo Weaving.

 

[Garth Rockett]

I was just attempting to offer a final clarification before moving on, what's wrong with that? Nothing on this board really matters. But exchange of ideas is what I'm here for.

 

[The Squire of Gothos]

Given we knew the Borg originated in the Delta Quadrant, was a Borg-heavy show unavoidable in the later seasons?

No, but I would have preferred if it was the focus of one season in particular.

If you dislike the Borg in Voyager, do you think they were overused or do you think they were poorly handled when they were used, or both?

A bit of both.

The great thing about the Borg in TNG was that they were more akin to a force of nature. You couldn't negotiate with them, reason, beg, plead, they just kept coming and would not stop for anything.

Even in TNG the rot had begun with the idea of individuals becoming conscious within the Collective and the Queen herself in a TNG movie taking away from this idea of a race that doesn't pause for breath while it assimilates.

So with Voyager there was no hope at all for them. Even though the assimilated Borg had the bodies of many different races, really their faces were all too human. They spoke to the Voyager crew just like any other "evil" race, with nothing to make them stand out any more. In short, they became incredibly boring.

If you think the Borg were overused, do you think Seven of Nine was the cause (in other words, if Seven had never joined the cast but the crew still encountered the Borg the same number of times, do you think you might feel differently)?

Seven was surplus to requirements. She was the obligatory series character who had trouble fitting in and coming to terms with humanity. Just like Spock, Data, Odo and The Doctor. But she never made any episode seem like there was a Borg influence, so unlike the Borg was she.

 

[Blueicus]

I actually liked Unity and Scorpion's characterization of the Borg. Although I could see their motives for introducing the Queen in FC and pitting the Queen against Janeway in the end it make it too much like "The Queen is the leader of the Borg"... though in reality we only see her and this sort of personification in Dark Frontier, Unimatrix 0 and Endgame whereas all other Borg related episodes have the disembodied male voice and a more collective feeling to them.

 

[Garth Rockett]

Seven was surplus to requirements. She was the obligatory series character who had trouble fitting in and coming to terms with humanity. Just like Spock, Data, Odo and The Doctor. But she never made any episode seem like there was a Borg influence, so unlike the Borg was she.

Yes, that is a good point. For me, however, I think Seven's presence helped contribute to my Borg oversaturization because of the frequent mentions of Borg technology when she was around. Plots that involved her use of Borg technology, her Borg implants breaking down, or Borg knowledge of various species kept putting the Borg in my mind even when they had little or nothing to do with the main plot. I think that helped contribute to the Borg fatigue I began to feel in the second half of the show's run.

 

[kimc]

Yes, that is a good point. For me, however, I think Seven's presence helped contribute to my Borg oversaturization because of the frequent mentions of Borg technology when she was around. Plots that involved her use of Borg technology, her Borg implants breaking down, or Borg knowledge of various species kept putting the Borg in my mind even when they had little or nothing to do with the main plot. I think that helped contribute to the Borg fatigue I began to feel in the second half of the show's run.

That could very well be. No matter what the problem Seven and her wonder borg technology could save the day. It makes you wonder how the crew ever managed to survive without her.

 

[exodus]

Yes, that is a good point. For me, however, I think Seven's presence helped contribute to my Borg oversaturization because of the frequent mentions of Borg technology when she was around. Plots that involved her use of Borg technology, her Borg implants breaking down, or Borg knowledge of various species kept putting the Borg in my mind even when they had little or nothing to do with the main plot. I think that helped contribute to the Borg fatigue I began to feel in the second half of the show's run.

That could very well be. No matter what the problem Seven and her wonder borg technology could save the day. It makes you wonder how the crew ever managed to survive without her.

What's the point of being Borg(near perfect) if you can't?

Even Data is seen as a waste by the Borg because they(like Q) see him as striving to be less than what he is in his persuit to being human. Too be human, is to be flawed.

While she was raped by the Borg to get them, Seven's abilities are a gift and her curse because she will always be seen as Borg. She will never, ever be completely human. So you can't help but discuss the subject of the Borg when dealing with her. Just like every Worf story in TNG had to involve the Klingons.

At least we're discovering new things on how the Borg work each time, I don't find learning something new boring. What's boring is the Klingons & Vulcans and how they keep rehashing the same cultural concepts over & over again as if they have no diversity. Which is probably why they didn't write for Tuvok because Vulcan's are dull because they don't get involved in anything.

 

[kimc]

What's the point of being Borg(near perfect) if you can't?

I guess I don't view Seven as near perfect and quite frankly she was at her most interesting when she was struggling or learning. Perfection may look great on paper but it's boring in real life.

 

[exodus]

What's the point of being Borg(near perfect) if you can't?

I guess I don't view Seven as near perfect and quite frankly she was at her most interesting when she was struggling or learning. Perfection may look great on paper but it's boring in real life.

Speak for yourself, honey.

If I was perfect, I'd be rich, well toned and drop dead gorgeous.
I see nothing boring about owning a private jet to dine in San Francisco and then flying to dance all night in Rome.

Besides, isn't Trek about improving ourselves to get rid of our flaws so we can be more perfect? isn't that why Picard is seen as the best humanity has to offer, why Q is goes out of his way to challenge him and why he's Captain of the Federation's flapship? Only the best in Starfleet serve onboard it.