The Importance of Harry Kim...

[Farscape One]

I thought about this line of dialogue when it first aired, but dismissed it over the years. People talking about "THRESHOLD" again, and rewatching it when I rewatched ALL the shows last year made me come back to something Janeway said.

She wanted Kim to do the flight when The Doctor found a 2% chance of a brain problem with Tom. She said that the ship needed Paris. I would think she would need BOTH of them.

So did she put less importance on Kim for the ship than Paris?

The only thing I can think of is The Doctor examined Kim and he showed zero chance, vs. Paris' 2%. That would explain the dialogue, we just never see it on screen.

Am I overanalyzing, or did anyone else notice that?

 

[Guy Gardener]

I had a theory that Janeway was Paris' mother becuase she used to work under Owen Paris, and men are disgusting.

How she reacted to the flight, exactly the same as Tom, suggests that they are perhaps very closely related, maybe even mother and son.

This may be why Janeway stopped their transwarp experiments, becuase if Voyager could get home, she couldn't.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I thought about this line of dialogue when it first aired, but dismissed it over the years. People talking about "THRESHOLD" again, and rewatching it when I rewatched ALL the shows last year made me come back to something Janeway said.

She wanted Kim to do the flight when The Doctor found a 2% chance of a brain problem with Tom. She said that the ship needed Paris. I would think she would need BOTH of them.

So did she put less importance on Kim for the ship than Paris?

The only thing I can think of is The Doctor examined Kim and he showed zero chance, vs. Paris' 2%. That would explain the dialogue, we just never see it on screen.

Am I overanalyzing, or did anyone else notice that?

It was a meta reference to how the audience felt about Kim.

Another example is in 'Unimatrix Zero pt 1' when Pars gets reinstated to Lieutenant and Kim is like 'where's mine' and everyone looks around the room being all like 'did somebody say something?' And then Tuvok makes up some shit about a distress call so Kim is completely shut down.

 

[Lynx]

I had a theory that Janeway was Paris' mother becuase she used to work under Owen Paris, and men are disgusting.

How she reacted to the flight, exactly the same as Tom, suggests that they are perhaps very closely related, maybe even mother and son.

This may be why Janeway stopped their transwarp experiments, becuase if Voyager could get home, she couldn't.

I have another theory which explains the similarity between Tom Paris and Nick Locarno.

Nick Locarno was the result of a a love affair between Admiral Paris and another woman than his wife. The old Admiral helped Nick Locarno to be accepted at Starfleet Academy where he screwed it up. The similar accidents Nick and Tom had were coincidents. Tom's hatred to his father was because he found out about Nick Locarno's existence during his time at Starfleet Academy.

As for the events in "Threshold", they never happened!

It was just a nightmare Paris had after eating too much Leola Root stew or drinking too much of Neelix’s coffee. The best evidence for this episode being nothing but a nightmare is the fact that no one ever mentioned the events in the episode in later episodes. I mean, Paris almost dies, turns into a lizard, abducts Janeway who is also turned into a lizard and they have lizard “children” and no one talks about it or jokes about it later!

 

[Guy Gardener]

I have another theory which explains the similarity between Tom Paris and Nick Locarno.

Nick Locarno was the result of a a love affair between Admiral Paris and another woman than his wife. The old Admiral helped Nick Locarno to be accepted at Starfleet Academy where he screwed it up. The similar accidents Nick and Tom had were coincidents. Tom's hatred to his father was because he found out about Nick Locarno's existence during his time at Starfleet Academy.

As for the events in "Threshold", they never happened!

It was just a nightmare Paris had after eating too much Leola Root stew or drinking too much of Neelix’s coffee. The best evidence for this episode being nothing but a nightmare is the fact that no one ever mentioned the events in the episode in later episodes. I mean, Paris almost dies, turns into a lizard, abducts Janeway who is also turned into a lizard and they have lizard “children” and no one talks about it or jokes about it later!

You've never read my "Star Trek: The Parent Trap" fanfiction?

 

[Lynx]

You've never read my "Star Trek: The Parent Trap" fanfiction?

No, not yet.

 

[jmidnight_99]

I thought about this line of dialogue when it first aired, but dismissed it over the years. People talking about "THRESHOLD" again, and rewatching it when I rewatched ALL the shows last year made me come back to something Janeway said.

She wanted Kim to do the flight when The Doctor found a 2% chance of a brain problem with Tom. She said that the ship needed Paris. I would think she would need BOTH of them.

So did she put less importance on Kim for the ship than Paris?

The only thing I can think of is The Doctor examined Kim and he showed zero chance, vs. Paris' 2%. That would explain the dialogue, we just never see it on screen.

Am I overanalyzing, or did anyone else notice that?

Maybe the 2% chance makes everyone dismiss or forget the dialog. I think she placed more importance on the position of experienced pilot than the position of inexperienced operations officer. Managers (and military officers) have to make these calls all the time.

"Threshold" is really out there. Space is apparently "warped" to saturation by the shuttle prototype; the effect is that the shuttle existed everywhere in the universe simultaneously. It's possible it also existed everywhen in time as well, since time=space. The course of Paris' hyper-evolution ("turning into a lizard") is interesting... I see that as the effects of millions of years of evolution in the absence of millions of years of environmental stimulus... Nothing was there to "drive" the evolutionary process, genetically or epigenetically, so the organism de-evolved into a less complex life form.

Fascinating science fiction. I'd love to see the "director's cut", because I suspect all the unanswered questions were either left on the cutting room floor, or possibly just left out of the story. I don't think this is a bad episode, I think the editors, writers or network just figured people wouldn't care or wouldn't understand the story.

 

[Lance]

It was just a nightmare Paris had after eating too much Leola Root stew or drinking too much of Neelix’s coffee.

Neelix has a lot to answer for.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Harry Kim would have been way more interesting spending the rest of voyager as a salamander

 

[Tribble Threat]

I just watched Favorite Son. Harry was plenty interesting in that, and he was in the middle of a really interesting mystery.

 

[Oddish]

There's a scene in "Nightingale" where Harry complains for the second time about being stuck at Ensign. Janeway's response, given her unwillingness to accommodate him, is perfect: she accuses him of "bucking for a promotion". She's been a subordinate, so she knows that when confronted thus, Harry will have no choice but to back down and tell her what she wants to hear.

Given that Starfleet was ready to make Harry a lieutenant in 8 months ("Non Sequitur"), Chakotay was perfectly happy to promote him ("Before and After") and he reached command rank in three other alternate timelines... well, maybe the theory that Janeway has some sort of issue with him holds water. More likely, though, it's just bad writing.

Regarding the shuttle, I think that the issue was unique to Paris. Another officer could have flown the mission without the 2% risk. He just would have been a slug after it was over.

 

[Farscape One]

In the case of "BEFORE AND AFTER", his full Lt. rank is likely due to a job change. With Janeway and Torres dead, clearly Chakotay was captain. Tuvok is a full Commander and became XO, leaving the security chief job open. (Though it was odd he still wore the gold uniform.) Paris was a Lt. Cmdr., so it's possible he became Security Chief, and given Kim's knowledge of engineering, he could very well have been made Chief Engineer. Especially since Paris said Carey was killed as well.

And in "NON SEQUITUR", he had a LOT more opportunities for advancement simply because other postings are... well, everywhere. And that meeting where the guy said he could walk out a Lt. might be hyperbole... yes, it almost certainly would lead him to a promotion, but that fast?

 

[Oddish]

I don't think they were going to reassign Harry. He had designed a slick new shuttle and produced a prototype. He still knew more about the design than anyone else. But, given that the project showed promise, Starfleet was likely going to divert more people and resources to it. So yes, it was very conceivable that Harry might have found himself promoted under those circumstances.

Regarding the rest of it, there's an article called "No Little Box, No Good Reason". It completely shreds every argument made that defends the decision to leave Harry at ensign for 7 years. If I can find it online, I'll post a link.

 

[Farscape One]

Oh, I'm not disagreeing that he should have been promoted at some point. Even if you use the excuse of being in the same position the entire run of the show, other officers were in the same position, yet were promoted.

Worf (Was Lt. j.g. for a full year as Security Chief, then made full Lt. at the start of season 3, then was made Lt. Cndr. in GENERATIONS while still in the same post.)
LaForge (Went from Lt. to Lt. Cmdr. in just a yeat as Chief Engineer, though that can be excused as being required for such a large ship and position, with the first year as the training time.)
Jadzia Dax
Bashir

Kim should have made Lt. j.g. by the end of season 3 or 4.

 

[Oddish]

That was in NLB, NGR. There were 9 in all: Geordi, Worf, Beverly, Troi, Sisko, Dax, Bashir, Tuvok, and Tom. Kira was excluded only because she was Bajoran militia instead of Starfleet.

Haven't found the article on the web, but it's on my PC. May just repost it, say author unknown or anonymous.

 

[Farscape One]

My knowledge of internet acronyms is terrible. What is NLB, NGR?

 

[Oddish]

Sorry. It's an article I previously mentioned. No Little Box, No Good Reason. Guy who wrote it scoured the web for every argument used to say why Harry's 7-year ensignhood was justified, ones like "there was no job for him to move to" and "there was no replacement crew" and "someone has to be the ensign". Then, he systematically squashed them all.

 

[Farscape One]

Does it ever explain why Data was never promoted? Because more than anyone, THAT was the most egregious.

 

[Oddish]

No, but I can do that myself. LCDR Shelby answered it when she looked Riker right in the eyes and said "you're in my way."

Yes, in the end Shelby took the job of helping rebuild the fleet, then got her first officer job if you consider "New Frontier" canon. But Riker stayed put, and as a result so did Data.

 

[Charles Phipps]

No, but I can do that myself. LCDR Shelby answered it when she looked Riker right in the eyes and said "you're in my way."

Yes, in the end Shelby took the job of helping rebuild the fleet, then got her first officer job if you consider "New Frontier" canon. But Riker stayed put, and as a result so did Data.

I choose to believe that Elizabeth Shelby is her own character. Like maybe her identically named cousin.

But if we do need a reason for why Harry wasn't promoted, I think Janeway actually did just think more of Tom thn Harry, however unfair that is.