The "I hate that Star Trek created ____" Thread

[Christopher]

Yep, I remember that Love American Style segment: "Love and the Happy Days"--which I suspect may have been a backdoor pilot for the later TV series.

My impression is that a ton of L,AS segments were either backdoor pilots or failed pilot films that the show was used to burn off. Wikipedia says it also spun off a sitcom called Barefoot in the Park (though that's based on the Neil Simon play, so it's questionable) and an animated Hanna-Barbera sitcom called Wait Till Your Father Gets Home.

I think a number of TV anthologies have included the occasional backdoor pilot; I know a couple of The Twilight Zone's really inept comedies, like "Cavender is Coming," were intended by Serling as backdoor pilots for fantasy sitcoms (one of them even had a laugh track).

Spinoffs have always been a huge part of TV cross-promotion strategy but they didn't give two shows the exact same name with different things after the colon. That's a precedent that has taken the burden of at least having to give shows their own identity off of the networks.

Granted, the Trek shows did begin the modern trend of using a Franchise Title: Series Subtitle format for the various shows, but that's really a minor stylistic innovation on a longstanding practice. And it wasn't completely without precedent: see The Man from U.N.C.L.E. and The Girl from U.N.C.L.E. There was also a 1956 British anthology show called Armchair Theatre which spun off an Armchair Mystery Theatre in 1960. In both cases, the spinoff ran simultaneously with the original (and was outlived by the original).

And there are examples of sequel/retooled series that reused part of their originals' names, like M*A*S*H and AfterMASH or Three's Company becoming Three's a Crowd. Or The Brady Bunch spinning off the animated The Brady Kids and having sequels called The Brady Bunch Hour and The Brady Brides, all predating TNG. Not to mention all the annually retooled Saturday morning cartoon franchises like The Archies, Super Friends, and Scooby-Doo, with each new incarnation of the show using a variation of the title. Sure, that's not quite the same as having multiple simultaneous series with a blanket franchise title, but it's a precedent that had to evolve only slightly. Nothing "new" comes out of nowhere.

 

[Greg Cox]

I don't know if it was from George Takei or another Asian-American actor working in those days, but there were still some taboos. White men could kiss black women, Asian women, whatever. Asian men could romance anyone except white women.

According to a documentary I saw recently, the sponsors even freaked when Petulia Clark took Harry Belafonte's arm while they were performing a duet on a variety show.

To her credit, Clark refused to reshoot the number . . . .

 

[dub]

Really enjoyed reading this thread. A couple of things popped in my head as I was reading:

Imagine BOBW and that cliffhanger without the music of Ron Jones underneath it! Loved those 2 episodes! Loved the cliffhanger! Loved the music! The stars aligned.

I don't mind technobabble as long as technobabble itself is not used to solve the episode or to solve a problem in general. So...I guess I don't like technobabble. :P

 

[Armored Saint]

Technobabble never really bothered me. It's always designed to make the audience get the gist while making the cast seem smart.

McCOY: Dammit, do you want an acute case on your hands? This woman has immediate post-prandial upper abdominal distension! ...Get out of the way! Get out of the way!
KIRK: What did you say she was got?
McCOY: Cramps.

I must say I've a problem with babble in real life. It's so pissing to have to read...an unreadable text....because you know, you've an university degree... At least, it's reassuring when you talk with a friend later who confirms that text's just gibberish....ok personnal trauma...

My point there's a line between expertise and mystique.

On the other hand, within the franchise alone, I do despise that The Best of Both Worlds created a template that both The Next Generation and Voyager hammered into the ground, the annual end-of-season-put-the-characters-in-inescapable-jeopardy-even-though-we-all-know-they'll-get-through-just-fine shindig. It all reached a fever pitch IMO with Voyager's Unimatrix Zero two-parter, where I just felt it was like "Really? They expect us to buy into all this? Really?"

I was far too young in the early 90's, but I suppose the feeling can't be the same when after TBOBW and the rumors of Stewart's departure you read in the news all the cast had confirmed their contract had been renewed.

 

[jimbotron]

McCOY: Dammit, do you want an acute case on your hands? This woman has immediate post-prandial upper abdominal distension! ...Get out of the way! Get out of the way!
KIRK: What did you say she was got?
McCOY: Cramps.

That babble had a point though. It was to confuse the guards and let them through.

Most technobabble in the late TNG to ENT era was in place of good writing, and was very grating when used as a deus ex machina to solve fake problems.

 

[TheSubCommander]

It was indeed the original intent to use a Constitution refit as the Stargazer, to the point that it was described as such in the original dialogue. When it was decided that the Stargazer would be a different class, they chose to specifically call it the "Constellation-class" because they had to redub the dialogue and wanted to match the actors' mouth movements. It was felt that using the Constitution on the small screen would diminish the Ent-A's role as the "hero ship" of the ongoing TOS movies.

I've heard that explanation before, actually. I suppose I see a certain logic behind that, as this is sort of analyzing their decision some quarter century or so later, but I personally don't think it would have hurt anything to have the Stargazer appear as a constitution class. People would have seen it in the same light as seeing a guest star from TOS, I think. It wouldn't have diminished the Enterprise refit/Enterprise A, but I think having Picard's old ship being a constitution class would have actually given him a certain amount of "street cred" and given him a connection to the past generation. At the very least, I think even if not a Constitution class, an Excelsior class would have been a lot better than the obvious kit bash the Stargazer/Constellation class was, using parts from a Connie. I dunno, I guess my complaint is just as much about being that I wish Picard's first ship was a Connie as it is that I think the Constellation class was just such an odd looking ship.

The Trek producers seemed to want each "hero" ship to be essentially unique. Not only did we rarely see a Connie in the modern shows, but DS9's Dominion War fleets almost never used an Intrepid-class or Sovereign-class ship. The only reason they used an Intrepid-class ship in "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" is because most of the episode was set on the ship and it was cheaper to use the standing Voyager sets than to build sets for a different Starfleet class. I figure the only reason they used so many Galaxy-class ships in DS9 is because the Ent-D had been superseded by the E at that point, so there'd be no confusion.

Well, I can understand the Sovereign classes and the Intrepid classes not being used often (or at all) on DS9 to preserve uniqueness since both Voyager and the TNG films were being produced at the same time. That actually makes sense to me because we were seeing Voyager every week for example, and although the Intrepid class appearing in "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" was a very welcome guest star for me, personally, it wasn't necessary to see an Intrepid class ship on DS9. The very rare use of those ship classes on DS9 make in-universe sense as well, because they were relatively new and naturally rare, too.

But back to the Constitution class, it was established the 1701/1701A weren't the only Constitution class ships way back in TOS. In fact, every federation star ship that appeared in TOS was a Constitution class (Constellation, Exeter, Defiant, Excalibur, Lexington, Hood, and Potempkin), and there were some that never were seen that were assumed to be one (IE the Constitution and Intrepid). So it wasn't unprecedented to see Constitution ships other than Enterprise.

I suppose this just boils down to matter of opinion, and my disagreement with TPTB, but I think had TNG had at least a couple cameos of a Connie still being used (just as they did with Miranda and Excelsior classes), I would have been satisfied. TNG's run just seem to almost erase the Connie from service by implication of its lack of appearance. I do understand the Enterprise/Enterprise A were being retired due to age and the Excelsior ships coming on line, but that doesn't necessarily have to mean all Constitution class ships were retired from service. In fact, its reasonable to assume that completely new Constitution class refit design ships were being built up to the point of Excelsior, and possibly for a short time, along side them. SO, when a ship can conceivably last 70 years or more, it just seemed a glaring omission to not feature a Constitution class ship in TNG, even if it were 1 or 2 episodes.

 

[Robert Comsol]

In a nutshell, it's the difference between:

"Captain! The engines cannot take it anymore!"

And:

"Captain! The primary matter-antimatter conversion chamber is undergoing an exponential quantum disruption cascade, resulting in a catastrophic field integrity inversion!"

As dialogue goes, I know which version I prefer!

Well, in the context of the original show all this new technology was difficult to grasp for the audience, so they kept it simple.

By the time of TNG, many people understood some of the basics, how matter-antimatter reaction is working and so on.

If Kirk was happy and content just to learn whether the engines could or couldn't take it, so be it.

But Geordi's report had definitely more substance, informing his "educated" captain what was actually going on.

While I do not understand all the details, I get the basic idea what is happening in the M/AM conversion chamber - and therefore prefer it.

Bob

 

[SPCTRE]

The only reason they used an Intrepid-class ship in "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" is because most of the episode was set on the ship and it was cheaper to use the standing Voyager sets than to build sets for a different Starfleet class.

I have to admit, seeing the Bellerophon back then gave me a raging fanboy ha- ... let's say, it induced vasocongestion.

 

[AgentCoop]

"Best of Both Worlds" wasn't even the biggest summer cliffhanger of 1990, when Twin Peaks had become a pop-culture phenomenon.

And Twin Peaks came up with the notion of the creator who doesn't know what he's doing.

David Lynch knew what he was doing. Just the network forced him to reveal the killer and then he said screw it.

Yep. Typical network thinking. They wanted David Lynch to do what David Lynch does, then they got impatient when he stubbornly insisted on doing what David Lynch does.

 

[Nerys Myk]

In a nutshell, it's the difference between:

"Captain! The engines cannot take it anymore!"

And:

"Captain! The primary matter-antimatter conversion chamber is undergoing an exponential quantum disruption cascade, resulting in a catastrophic field integrity inversion!"

As dialogue goes, I know which version I prefer!

Well, in the context of the original show all this new technology was difficult to grasp for the audience, so they kept it simple.

I thought is was because they thought the characters wouldn't use such language in real life.

I think most people, with even those with the slightest exposure to SF or science, could grasp the majority of it.

 

[Armored Saint]

A "new technology" is an existing technology,.

 

[Warped9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QktVh64BYx4

That is just too reakin' wierd.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I hate how TNG dumbed down Trek. Worst were the redesigned Romulans, insulting viewer intelligence by assuming we are too stupid to differentiate them from Vulcans without a new bumpy forehead.

I hate that TNG moved away from colourful alien designs (see: TOS, TMP, STIV) and kept to formulaic bumpy forehead human aliens.

I hate all the babytalk technobabble which TNG introduced into the Trekverse. Whoever thought it warranted a place beyond background chatter was very very wrong. I'd often wonder how much shorter the episodes would be if it was cut, trimming "quantum phase scanner" into "scanner", "tri-axlating energy signature" with "energy signature" etc.

I hate that TNG introduced us to "evolved humans" of the 24th century who have no interpersonal conflict and look down their noses at the rest of the galaxy (thankfully this angle was mostly dropped from DS9, Voyager and the TNG movies)

Add to that basically civilizing the galaxy and cuting back on the weird s@#t.

 

[Mudd]

Technobabble. And cutting back on the weird shit.

 

[Ithekro]

The odd bit is that in the Star Trek movies, the only other Constitution we ever saw was the Enterprise-A. We started seeing other ships in Starfleet after having basically only seen Constitutions in TOS. Some rumors suggested that there were only a few left by the time Excelsior gets rolling, with the Enterprise-A being the last one.

 

[Christopher]

The odd bit is that in the Star Trek movies, the only other Constitution we ever saw was the Enterprise-A. We started seeing other ships in Starfleet after having basically only seen Constitutions in TOS. Some rumors suggested that there were only a few left by the time Excelsior gets rolling, with the Enterprise-A being the last one.

In real-world terms, that's not odd at all. In the show, they couldn't afford to build new models, so they reused the one they had whenever they needed to show another Starfleet ship. But the movies had a lot more money, so they were able to build more models.

 

[KaineMorrison]

I'm rewatching TNG...
I hate that every (nearly) Settlement, Being or Alien or whatever always (nearly) turns out to be Bad or have a deceitful twist!
Like seriously, WTF???

It is not just TNG either, TOS had this issue as well.

 

[BillJ]

I'm rewatching TNG...
I hate that every (nearly) Settlement, Being or Alien or whatever always (nearly) turns out to be Bad or have a deceitful twist!
Like seriously, WTF???

It is not just TNG either, TOS had this issue as well.

I don't think TOS had this issue to the same degree though. In many instances what looked on the face to be some alien being evil was actually them protecting themselves.

The thing that brings me back to TOS over and over is how flawed and human the characters are. It wasn't always so cut-and-dry on who the good guys and bad guys were.

 

[Christopher]

I'm rewatching TNG...
I hate that every (nearly) Settlement, Being or Alien or whatever always (nearly) turns out to be Bad or have a deceitful twist!
Like seriously, WTF???

It is not just TNG either, TOS had this issue as well.

Umm... pretty much all fiction has that issue. If nothing bad happens, there's no story.

 

[Ithekro]

Though there were time that Picard would, after figuring out what was going on, just up and leave. Tell them to work it out themselves since the Prime Directive says we can't do anything for you. If you want to join the Federation, fix your problems then give us a call. If not, see you.