The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers)
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Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers
The Azog didn't bother me, it was just some wheel spinning. And it was at least more interesting wheel spinning than the characters repeatedly surviving certain death. But I must say that the discovery that Thorin put his personal feelings above everybody else, and above his supposed determination to recover the dwarf home, wasn't very compelling. As I say, I viewed it as rather obviously foreshadowing his fate. His disbelief in Bilbo wasn't compelling either, even if we viewers are supposed to dislike anyone who can't appreciate Our Hero.
The Azog didn't bother me, it was just some wheel spinning. And it was at least more interesting wheel spinning than the characters repeatedly surviving certain death. But I must say that the discovery that Thorin put his personal feelings above everybody else, and above his supposed determination to recover the dwarf home, wasn't very compelling. As I say, I viewed it as rather obviously foreshadowing his fate. His disbelief in Bilbo wasn't compelling either, even if we viewers are supposed to dislike anyone who can't appreciate Our Hero.
Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers
Well, I thought he tried to kill Azog so they could get off that damn tree.
Well, I thought he tried to kill Azog so they could get off that damn tree.
Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers
Come on. They made the orcs and goblins white-colored. That wasn't politically correct enough?
Come on. They made the orcs and goblins white-colored. That wasn't politically correct enough?
Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers
The reason to build up the Azog character is to have an actual leader of the Orcs in the Battle of Five Armies, rather than some random captain. Just like they built up that yellow deformed Orc captain in ROTK. In a book you can just fight a wave of enemies, but in a visual medium you need a recognizable leader to defeat to signify the victory.
The reason to build up the Azog character is to have an actual leader of the Orcs in the Battle of Five Armies, rather than some random captain. Just like they built up that yellow deformed Orc captain in ROTK. In a book you can just fight a wave of enemies, but in a visual medium you need a recognizable leader to defeat to signify the victory.
Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers
Finally watched it again, in good old-fashioned 24fps this time, and found it a dramatic improvement over the previous viewing. I still enjoyed the movie in 48, but this time it just seemed to flow a lot better and I found myself being MUCH more engaged by it.
It actually felt like I was watching characters in a movie again, and not just actors on a movie set.
Of course it still takes the movie a while to get going in the beginning, but once they finally leave the freakin Shire I think it moves along pretty damn well.
Finally watched it again, in good old-fashioned 24fps this time, and found it a dramatic improvement over the previous viewing. I still enjoyed the movie in 48, but this time it just seemed to flow a lot better and I found myself being MUCH more engaged by it.
It actually felt like I was watching characters in a movie again, and not just actors on a movie set.
Of course it still takes the movie a while to get going in the beginning, but once they finally leave the freakin Shire I think it moves along pretty damn well.
Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers
*whispers* That's because you're used to it.
Had this been a change from 15fps to 24fps, or from 48fps to 96fps, we'd hear the same debates.
*whispers* That's because you're used to it.
Had this been a change from 15fps to 24fps, or from 48fps to 96fps, we'd hear the same debates.
Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers
I'm kinda surprised by all the Azog criticism. He may not be in the book, but he's still an absolutely badass villain with an awesome design, and something I think the movie really needed.
I'm kinda surprised by all the Azog criticism. He may not be in the book, but he's still an absolutely badass villain with an awesome design, and something I think the movie really needed.
Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers
I don't doubt it. But until the day we all decide that a "movie" is something that looks like a glossy, big-budget stage play, I'm going to stick with the style I like.
I don't doubt it. But until the day we all decide that a "movie" is something that looks like a glossy, big-budget stage play, I'm going to stick with the style I like.
Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers
Who said anything about political correctness?
Please don't put your words in my mouth. They have a nasty taste. Like feet.
Who said anything about political correctness?
Please don't put your words in my mouth. They have a nasty taste. Like feet.
Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers
It was the whole "not enough women" thing. But you're right - political correctness doesn't happen unless the words "political correctness" are spoken.
It was the whole "not enough women" thing. But you're right - political correctness doesn't happen unless the words "political correctness" are spoken.
Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers
Was he badass, though? I liked the movie on the whole, but Azog was its weakest point. All he does is snarl and kill subordinates and let our heroes get away time after time, like every movie villain since 1977.
Was he badass, though? I liked the movie on the whole, but Azog was its weakest point. All he does is snarl and kill subordinates and let our heroes get away time after time, like every movie villain since 1977.
Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers
Technically, he doesn't really appear in the book, but he is mentioned in The Hobbit and in the appendices for The Lord of the Rings.
Technically, he doesn't really appear in the book, but he is mentioned in The Hobbit and in the appendices for The Lord of the Rings.
Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers
Isn't the Goblin commander at the Battle of the Five Armies Bolg, son of Azog?
Isn't the Goblin commander at the Battle of the Five Armies Bolg, son of Azog?
Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers
Yep. That's why I was kind of confused that they used Azog as the recurring antagonist instead of Bolg. Bolg still could have fulfilled the "death to the line of Durin!" roll that Azog had in AUJ, just have him swear vengeance for the death of his father Azog at the battle depicted in the flashbacks.
Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers
I didn't realize he was a preexisting character. I thought they just made him up completely for the movie.
I just looked him up on the LOTR wiki, and for anyone else like me who doesn't know his history, he was killed in the battle outside of Moria that the movie flashed back to.
I didn't realize he was a preexisting character. I thought they just made him up completely for the movie.
I just looked him up on the LOTR wiki, and for anyone else like me who doesn't know his history, he was killed in the battle outside of Moria that the movie flashed back to.
Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers
Incidentally, Gothmog was a named character in Lord of the Rings.
This example highlights one of the pitfalls in making it personal. By focusing on Gothmog's effort to kill some hero or other and his ensuing quietus, they disappeared pretty much the battle, turning an epic conflict into a duel. Hollywood apparently finds it mandatory to "make it personal" but this is very often not the best artistic choice to make.
Incidentally, Gothmog was a named character in Lord of the Rings.
This example highlights one of the pitfalls in making it personal. By focusing on Gothmog's effort to kill some hero or other and his ensuing quietus, they disappeared pretty much the battle, turning an epic conflict into a duel. Hollywood apparently finds it mandatory to "make it personal" but this is very often not the best artistic choice to make.
Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers
Hollywood has been making conflicts that shouldn't be personnel for a long time. It's in films and TV shows.
One of the more extreme forms of this where a cop is threatened by a serial killer. From watching crime documentaries, I learned that the killer may taunt the police, but they never make it personnel. I understand though why they do it. Procedural dramas, like Zero Dark Thirty, are rare and, if not written and directed well, they can descend to unplumbed depths of awfulness. And, the audience needs a person to latch onto, to root for, and this is harder to do in an ensemble piece where none of the characters really stand out.
Hollywood has been making conflicts that shouldn't be personnel for a long time. It's in films and TV shows.
One of the more extreme forms of this where a cop is threatened by a serial killer. From watching crime documentaries, I learned that the killer may taunt the police, but they never make it personnel. I understand though why they do it. Procedural dramas, like Zero Dark Thirty, are rare and, if not written and directed well, they can descend to unplumbed depths of awfulness. And, the audience needs a person to latch onto, to root for, and this is harder to do in an ensemble piece where none of the characters really stand out.