The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers)

[davejames]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

I haven't read the book, but is Gandalf coming to the rescue at the last minute going to be a continual thing? Because by the third time it happened in this movie it was already starting to seem a bit ridiculous.

Also, is there some kind of explanation in the books as to why the giant eagles don't just fly Gandalf and the gang all the way to their destination? Like maybe they aren't able to leave a certain area? Or they don't want to get too close and risk the dragon sensing them?

 

[Blue_Trek]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

I thought it was good, but the Eagle scene reminded me of a video I saw a few years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/SW1nkEYDHQFw0

Yup Gandalf gets a thrill from these quests because, well it builds character in the other people around him

 

[AvBaur]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

I guess the idea is that the eagles aren't actually all that keen on interfering in the business of the other peoples of Middle Earth. But they'll do the occasional small favor for their good friend Gandalf.

 

[Thestral]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

I may have been overstating with "Saruman is a good guy;" certainly he comes across as rather full of himself at best, sinister at worst. But he can't be too obviously subverted, otherwise it makes no sense for Gandalf to go to him in Fellowship.

 

[Mr Light]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

I believe the Eagles are direct servants of god, like the Wizards, and so only help the heroes enough to get them to the next stage of their development.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

Well, going tomorrow with my DnD group. A theater in a college town without an IMAX or 3D screen, no big deal for me on either front.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

I gave it an A-. I'll say what I said on facebook. It's long and schizophrenic, but it's also entertaining, familiar, and has a good heart. When we got to the Misty Mountains, I definitely thought "ah fuck, we're only at the Misty Mountains? This has been going on forever." But the odd thing is I wasn't bothered by any scene previously. Everything felt well-paced and exciting. I certainly could think of a few things (pair down the Trolls, cut the Azog killing a henchman scene), but nothing that would have changed things much.

Of the additions, I liked them. I was surprisingly pleased about Radagast. He fit the tone of the story fairly well and better him as comic relief than Gimli in the Two Towers. Azog also worked well and gave the story a sense of urgency in what was otherwise a bunch of disjointed vignettes.

The tone was the hardest to get used to, but it was the more Hobbit-like parts that felt odd and I can't fault him for at least trying to be a bit like the book in that regard. I also can't really fault him for trying to bridge the gap to the LOTR with the bits that are more serious. It would be nice watch the movies together so I don't want the tone to be too jarring. Plus, considering Tolkien's rewrite, it seems appropriate.

The HFR took a little bit to get used to (at first, I thought it was playing on the wrong speed), but it quickly seemed to get better. I got a slight headache right around the Misty Mountains, but I think eye strain had something to do with it. Overall, I felt it was roughly Two Tower-like. A bit padded for the material, but still entertaining. Plus, I felt the story had very good themes. Not just the maturation of Bilbo, but the Dwarves finding their home thing.

 

[.:: TSN ::.]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

Galadriel has a Ring. Frodo, who she telepathed with, had the Ring. So, guess what Gandalf has, which is one reason he could do a big blast at goblins?

Yes. Gandalf always had one of the three Elven Rings - the Ring of Fire. It was given to him by the Elves when he arrived in Middle Earth.

Which was why Galadriel could also talk long-range with Elrond, 'cause Elrond has the third one.

So what you got there is Ring private chat.

That's a nice idea, but neither Gandalf nor Galadriel were wearing their rings in the movie, I was watching for that.

I didn't notice if Elrond was.

Maybe they dont need to wear rings in their fingers for "private chat" to work. Just keep them somewhere near.

After all One ring affected Gollum, Bilbo and Frodo even if they just kept it in their pockets or in a string around their necks.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

Galadriel has a Ring. Frodo, who she telepathed with, had the Ring. So, guess what Gandalf has, which is one reason he could do a big blast at goblins?

Yes. Gandalf always had one of the three Elven Rings - the Ring of Fire. It was given to him by the Elves when he arrived in Middle Earth.

Which was why Galadriel could also talk long-range with Elrond, 'cause Elrond has the third one.

So what you got there is Ring private chat.

That's a nice idea, but neither Gandalf nor Galadriel were wearing their rings in the movie, I was watching for that.

I didn't notice if Elrond was.

Maybe they dont need to wear rings in their fingers for "private chat" to work. Just keep them somewhere near.

After all One ring affected Gollum, Bilbo and Frodo even if they just kept it in their pockets or in a string around their necks.

Ordinarily the elven rings can't be seen unless the wearer allows it. Frodo saw Galadriel's ring because he was a Ring Bearer as far as I remember.

 

[Patrick O'Brien]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

Going today with my Girlfriend (she is a good sport). I'll cast a vote when I return

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

The Hobbit made only $7.74 mil. on Monday, which is quite a disappointment, to be realistic.

In comparison, Return of the King made 13.6 mil. on its first Monday, and it was its sixth day of the release.

That is disappointing but not surprising considering it sold less tickets on its opening weekend than The Two Towers. It only made more money because of IMAX.

Not to take away the significance that AUJ sold fewer tickets than TTT, but worthy of note, with respect to the Monday-after-release numbers: For ROTK, the Monday in question was the one right before Christmas (the 22nd) - more schools and businesses were closed on that day than this past Monday (the 17th).

 

[Mach5]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

Going today with my Girlfriend (she is a good sport). I'll cast a vote when I return

I saw it with my GF on Sunday. She's a Tolkien buff. Beat that. xD

 

[Professor Zoom]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

Going today with my Girlfriend (she is a good sport). I'll cast a vote when I return

I saw it with my GF on Sunday. She's a Tolkien buff. Beat that. xD

My girlfriend IS Tolkien. Beat that.

(He's a charming man, but a lousy kisser. And let's not even talk about what goes on in the bedroom. But for some reason, I just can't break up with JRR.)

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

Also, is there some kind of explanation in the books as to why the giant eagles don't just fly Gandalf and the gang all the way to their destination? Like maybe they aren't able to leave a certain area? Or they don't want to get too close and risk the dragon sensing them?

I guess the idea is that the eagles aren't actually all that keen on interfering in the business of the other peoples of Middle Earth. But they'll do the occasional small favor for their good friend Gandalf.

I believe the Eagles are direct servants of god, like the Wizards, and so only help the heroes enough to get them to the next stage of their development.

The problem lies also lies with how Peter Jackson depicts the Eagles' rescues in both the trilogy and The Hobbit. In the trilogy, Gwaihir rescues Gandalf from Orthanc because he happens to passing by the area, not because he was summoned by Gandalf. Additionally, in The Hobbit, the eagles only happened to be in the area and decided to help out, and again, they were not summoned by Gandalf. In each case, there's a certain reluctance on their part to help out and only helped out in a limited manner and out of favor to Radagast, neither of which is clear in Fellowship of the Ring or An Unexpected Journey.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

The problem lies also lies with how Peter Jackson depicts the Eagles' rescues in both the trilogy and The Hobbit. In the trilogy, Gwaihir rescues Gandalf from Orthanc because he happens to passing by the area, not because he was summoned by Gandalf. Additionally, in The Hobbit, the eagles only happened to be in the area and decided to help out, and again, they were not summoned by Gandalf. In each case, there's a certain reluctance on their part to help out and only helped out in a limited manner and out of favor to Radagast, neither of which is clear in Fellowship of the Ring or An Unexpected Journey.

True, although there's already so much that happens by coincidence in the story that he made the right call, in my opinion. "The Hobbit" is very much a "and then random stuff happened, and our heroes were rescued by a very deus ex machina Gandalf" kind of book.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

The problem lies also lies with how Peter Jackson depicts the Eagles' rescues in both the trilogy and The Hobbit. In the trilogy, Gwaihir rescues Gandalf from Orthanc because he happens to passing by the area, not because he was summoned by Gandalf. Additionally, in The Hobbit, the eagles only happened to be in the area and decided to help out, and again, they were not summoned by Gandalf. In each case, there's a certain reluctance on their part to help out and only helped out in a limited manner and out of favor to Radagast, neither of which is clear in Fellowship of the Ring or An Unexpected Journey.

True, although there's already so much that happens by coincidence in the story that he made the right call, in my opinion. "The Hobbit" is very much a "and then random stuff happened, and our heroes were rescued by a very deus ex machina Gandalf" kind of book.

Quite so, Peter Jackson definitely made the right call for An Unexpected Journey based on that and based off what he already established. That being said, just like the trilogy, plenty of people are going to be saying "Why didn't the Eagles just take them all the way to Erebor?" Especially after they see the Eagles show up at The Battle of the Five Armies (which people will also say "Huh, didn't we already see this before?").

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

The problem lies also lies with how Peter Jackson depicts the Eagles' rescues in both the trilogy and The Hobbit. In the trilogy, Gwaihir rescues Gandalf from Orthanc because he happens to passing by the area, not because he was summoned by Gandalf. Additionally, in The Hobbit, the eagles only happened to be in the area and decided to help out, and again, they were not summoned by Gandalf. In each case, there's a certain reluctance on their part to help out and only helped out in a limited manner and out of favor to Radagast, neither of which is clear in Fellowship of the Ring or An Unexpected Journey.

True, although there's already so much that happens by coincidence in the story that he made the right call, in my opinion. "The Hobbit" is very much a "and then random stuff happened, and our heroes were rescued by a very deus ex machina Gandalf" kind of book.

If one had to rationalize Gandalf constantly saving the Dwarves, it might be that he personally wanted to see Smaug "dealt with," but wanted the plausible deniability of not having done the deed himself, since Saruman might not have been okay with that. The Dwarves wanting to retake Erebor anyway gave him a convenient pretext, but they were obviously not equipped to accomplish their mission entirely on their own, so Gandalf had to keep saving their bacon, one way or another.

This might make Gandalf seem like a manipulative jerk, but I'm not so sure he isn't.

 

[stj]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

Smaug can fly. If I were an eagle I'd avoid Erebor's airspace, no matter how much it lengthens a dwarf expedition.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

As amusing as that alternate-ending LOTR video might be, it also ignores the Nazgul's mounts. I doubt the eagles could just fly over Mount Doom unopposed. On the other hand, at the very least, if they did make the attempt, we'd have a "One does not simply swoop into Mordor" meme.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

If I were Jackson, I would first be pretty happy about the gazillions of dollars in my money bin, and second I would change the Eagle's involvement in the Battle of the Five Armies. What happens in LotR is indeed a cheap rehash.