The High Ground question.

[Vanyel]

In the high ground was there any reason that wouldn't have prevented Picard from having Data and Worf scan the locations of the wounded and beam the away team and wounded up to the Enterprise? One transporter room beaming directly to sick bay an another beaming Worf and Data to the Enterprise?

Crusher would have had all of sickbay and her team ready to help with the injured away from danger.

And if Finn decided to kidnap her from the Enterprise I think it would have made for a more dramatic teaser.

 

[Trekker4747]

Not that I can think of, unless they have some rule about beaming people up without knowledge or consent, even in emergency circumstances, or with whatever conditions they were visiting the planet on.

 

[trekker670]

Not that I can think of, unless they have some rule about beaming people up without knowledge or consent, even in emergency circumstances, or with whatever conditions they were visiting the planet on.

I'm pretty sure there have been cases where they have beamed people aboard without consent.

 

[Vanyel]

Not that I can think of, unless they have some rule about beaming people up without knowledge or consent, even in emergency circumstances, or with whatever conditions they were visiting the planet on.

I'm pretty sure there have been cases where they have beamed people aboard without consent.

I'm pretty sure the injured and their families wouldn't have minded getting the state-of-the-art medical care The Federation has to offer.

 

[Timo]

There are two risks Picard has to consider before beaming up the entire mall.

a) Will the patients be endangered by the transport? This is sometimes an issue; some triage would be needed first to ensure that everybody can be broken down into a phased matter stream and then reassembled, potentially in a different position.

b) Will a second bomb be beamed up with Crusher and the patients?

Indiscriminate beaming sounds like a bad idea there, especially as it denies the wounded the medical care Rutia could provide. Leaving Crusher behind means the patients get both Rutian and Starfleet care.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Vanyel]

Possible that beaming up the injured could cause more harm than good, but injured have been beamed up before to get them out of danger. In The Arsenal of Freedom, Crusher seemed unconcerned about being beamed to the Enterprise. Even though she received injuries that required immediate medical care, blood loss being the biggest issue. She was in a reclined position, propped up against a rock. Beaming her up would have left the rock behind and had her laid on her back. Sometimes removing people out of harms way and, in the option I described, directly to a medical facility is best.

Data's tricorder found no other explosives, so beaming up another bomb was not probable. The transporters also scan for weapons which should include explosives and it can deactivate them or not rematerialize them.

As Crusher said, she was there, the Rutian doctors weren't. Beaming the injured to the Enterprise would allow Sickbay to begin triage and treatment in a fully functional medical facility immediately; and then a call to the Enterprise could have Rutian doctors up there quickly too.

The benefits, I believe, outweigh the risks.

 

[Timo]

injured have been beamed up before to get them out of danger

Individual injured, yes. Not large numbers. And in, say, "Hide & Q", in situ treatment was opted for, in a disaster area where an underground explosion had wrought havoc, and where our heroes arrived via transporter effortlessly enough. The risk of further havoc would seem to have remained, too.

Data's tricorder found no other explosives, so beaming up another bomb was not probable.

The tricorder didn't find the original bomb, either...

But if there's no risk of bombs, then risk planetside should be minimal overall. If anything, the explosion site would be the most secure spot on Rutia at the moment!

Of course, it would be a standard terror tactic to allow help to arrive and then to make a second attack. But a second bomb would be the only way to do that, now that the place was swarming with heavily armed security.

then a call to the Enterprise could have Rutian doctors up there quickly too.

But without their facilities, in strange facilities they could not make full use of. Probably easier to beam down some of Crusher's gear.

The benefits, I believe, outweigh the risks.

Might well be. But Picard thought differently; his concern probably wasn't so much about the landing party being in danger of taking further hits, but about the continuing presence of the landing party resulting in further hits or other unrest in the volatile situation. Withdrawing of most forces would be a less offensive action than abducting of numerous Rutians.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Trekker4747]

Well, again, I maintain it is possible there may have been a formal agreement between the Enterprise and the planet that people wouldn't be beamed against their will and even an emergency situation like this would probably prove to be a relations-nightmare. For all we know the inhabitants of the planet might find beaming to be "against their religion" due to uncertainty on the continuity of the soul. Especially if their primary experience with transporting was with the "Quantum Shift" transporter which we're told has serious drawbacks. The inhabitants we do see beamed, however, obviously feel otherwise probably due to their more militant position where, perhaps, beaming was almost a requirement.

 

[Vanyel]

Well, again, I maintain it is possible there may have been a formal agreement between the Enterprise and the planet that people wouldn't be beamed against their will and even an emergency situation like this would probably prove to be a relations-nightmare. For all we know the inhabitants of the planet might find beaming to be "against their religion" due to uncertainty on the continuity of the soul. Especially if their primary experience with transporting was with the "Quantum Shift" transporter which we're told has serious drawbacks. The inhabitants we do see beamed, however, obviously feel otherwise probably due to their more militant position where, perhaps, beaming was almost a requirement.

No one Rutia, but the Ansata, knew of the dangers of dimensional shifting.

So if not beaming the wounded up, then tell Data or Worf to stick to Crusher like glue. Finn wouldn't have been able to move fast enough to grab Crusher and get out of Data's range to shift away.

 

[Timo]

Finn supposedly wouldn't have been able to get anywhere near Crusher if not for his special transporter, though. Or at least his appearance was such a major surprise to everybody that it almost implies that there were anti-transporter safeguards or at least alarms in place, capable of hindering like attempts by conventional transporter systems.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Vanyel]

Still, it wouldn't have a fast, strong, android who could react faster than a human at her side. Worst case Finn takes Data along with Crusher and Heaven help Finn if he did.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Not that I can think of, unless they have some rule about beaming people up without knowledge or consent, even in emergency circumstances, or with whatever conditions they were visiting the planet on.

I'm pretty sure there have been cases where they have beamed people aboard without consent.

Kevin & Rishon Uxbridge come to mind. Obviously that was really only one "person", but still applicable.

 

[Vanyel]

Not that I can think of, unless they have some rule about beaming people up without knowledge or consent, even in emergency circumstances, or with whatever conditions they were visiting the planet on.

I'm pretty sure there have been cases where they have beamed people aboard without consent.

Kevin & Rishon Uxbridge come to mind. Obviously that was really only one "person", but still applicable.

The other that comes to mind is the one that pissed Picard and Worf off in Homward. And again, it was Worf's brother who did it.

 

[Drago-Kazov]

Maybe he was not allowed to beam people up from sovereign rutian territory.

 

[Timo]

It's more likely to be a case of "did not dare beam" than "wasn't allowed to beam". An already explosive situation (literally!) would only become worse if Starfleet started unilateral action, quite regardless of whether that action was orbital bombardment, casualty evacuation or just obnoxious humming.

Timo Saloniemi