The hideously racist way Starfleet treated Dal

[The Wormhole]

Can they become full officers that way though? That does seem doubtful, or is there evidence to the contrary?

O'Brien has never been to the Academy, and he once said he was offered an officer's commission, which he declined. If it's possible for a Chief Petty Officer to become an officer without Academy training, it would definitely be possible for a Warrant Officer.

Besides, attending Starfleet Academy isn't even the only way to become an officer. Michael Burnham never attended the Academy and she joined Starfleet as an officer.

 

[Ralph O Ward III]

O'Brien has never been to the Academy, and he once said he was offered an officer's commission, which he declined. If it's possible for a Chief Petty Officer to become an officer without Academy training, it would definitely be possible for a Warrant Officer.

Besides, attending Starfleet Academy isn't even the only way to become an officer. Michael Burnham never attended the Academy and she joined Starfleet as an officer.

result of Sarek collecting a favor from Starfleet

 

[Deks]

result of Sarek collecting a favor from Starfleet

Sarek did mention he 'might' be able to find her a position in Starfleet... but I was under the impression that VSA was an equivalent of SF Academy (allowing a Vulcan to serve on Vulcan ships, etc.).

In which case, M.B. skipped the Academy and went straight to Shenzou to serve in a science capacity (or because Sarek pulled a few strings, Georgiou put her through intense field training onboard and Burnham earned her comission like that).

We know that Spock declined the offer to join the VSA and instead went to join SF... but in that case, it would imply he went through the Academy, or he (also) ended up skipping Academy and got field training, or he got a teaching position at the Academy due to his high scores on Vulcan and was going through the Academy in a sort of an accelerated fashion.

 

[Tallguy]

Roddenberry said there were no enlisted in Starfleet but we've seen concrete evidence to the contrary. So who the heck knows what the process will be. What is it going to do? Lower their final pension?

Maybe one of the kids will fake their death and frame Janeway for it. Leading to some sort of Courtmartial.

I'm sure the kids will be fine.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Roddenberry said there were no enlisted in Starfleet but we've seen concrete evidence to the contrary. So who the heck knows what the process will be. What is it going to do? Lower their final pension?

Information is limited and somewhat inconsistent, but the best summary of the key points IMO comes from the episode The Drumhead:

PICARD: Well, tell me a little about yourself, Crewman. I know you were born on Mars Colony.
TARSES: Yes, sir. All my life I wanted to be in Starfleet. I went to the Academy's training programme for enlisted personnel. I took training as a medical technician and I served at several outposts. The day that I was posted to the Enterprise was the happiest day of my life.
PICARD: Did you ever consider applying to the Academy, going the whole route, apply to become an officer?
TARSES: My parents wanted me to. And then I thought about it...

PICARD: You didn't do it.
TARSES: No. I was eighteen, and eager. The last thing I wanted to do was spend four years sitting in classrooms. I wanted to be out there, travelling the stars. I didn't want to wait for anything.

No information on the length of training for Starfleet isn't given, but something similar to USN Hospitalman (A School - 19 weeks), US Army Combat Medic (26 weeks) or British Armed Forces (36 weeks) seems likely given his comments about avoiding "years in the classroom".

 

[valkyrie013]

From the epilogue, it seemed that the kids were doing some kind of training there on Earth before Janeway was about to take them out. So they are probably going through an Enlisted "Boot Camp" or some type of class training. We don't know how long it will take Janeway to Finagle starfleet to go through the wormhole.

 

[Wouter]

From the epilogue, it seemed that the kids were doing some kind of training there on Earth before Janeway was about to take them out. So they are probably going through an Enlisted "Boot Camp" or some type of class training. We don't know how long it will take Janeway to Finagle starfleet to go through the wormhole.

It does seem unlikely she will take a training ship - or even a regular ship but with plenty of trainees (they won't be alone, as Brett Gray has already mentioned there will be others) on such a dangerous mission. Moreover, the final Janeway mission log stated that Starfleet has classified the temporal wormhole. This in any case would mean that Dal and co haven't been told about it yet, and it may mean that there is (as of yet) no permission to use it for a rescue mission.

If so, either Janeway will first have to fight and use her influence again to get approval for the mission (after which she could presumably pick a crew and vessel most suited for the operation) or she won't get permission and have to do it "search for Spock" style, very likely involving her trainees (which will likely be personally loyal to her to some degree).

 

[Deks]

From the epilogue, it seemed that the kids were doing some kind of training there on Earth before Janeway was about to take them out. So they are probably going through an Enlisted "Boot Camp" or some type of class training. We don't know how long it will take Janeway to Finagle starfleet to go through the wormhole.

Its unlikely she will take too long before they take a ship through the wormhole.
There's also the possibility it could destabilize... so, its not like they can wait forever before going through.

 

[Timofnine]

Its unlikely she will take too long before they take a ship through the wormhole.
There's also the possibility it could destabilize... so, its not like they can wait forever before going through.

I think that they should put a self replicating mine field around this new wormhole before someone comes through and invades the Alpha Quadrant. Is there any evidence that this artificially induced wormhole is actually stable? One end could bounce around a bit like the Barzan wormhole… regardless, it is best to secure this new formed anomaly before someone else does and takes tactical advantage of it.

 

[Deks]

I think that they should put a self replicating mine field around this new wormhole before someone comes through and invades the Alpha Quadrant. Is there any evidence that this artificially induced wormhole is actually stable? One end could bounce around a bit like the Barzan wormhole… regardless, it is best to secure this new formed anomaly before someone else does and takes tactical advantage of it.

Nah, it seems fairly stable (or at least probably as stable as the first one).

But seeing how its leading to day 72 of after Vau'N'A'Kat captured the Protostar, wouldn't this create a bit of a paradox in itself?

Now we have 2 entry points of the wormhole connecting to the same time frame (the one from which Chakotay originally entered and now this one created by holo Janway), or two distinct wormholes.

The original entry point is the one which brought the Protostar to the future and stayed open for longer than 72 days (allowing Chakotay to launch it on its own with the Living Construct to the past).... this new entry point which holo-Janeway made should remain stable for at least as long as the first one... but leads to the similar time frame.

Lol... its getting a tad trippy.

 

[dswynne1]

My problem with the augmentation ban is that it is too broad, too general and not within the proper context. Augmentation for military applications? BAN IT. Augmentation in order to provide an unfair advantage for positions in Starfleet and the Federation? BAN IT. Adapting oneself to a planetary environment? OKAY. Being the result of a lab experiment that gives NO discernable benefits (like Dal)? FINE. BTW, it's understandable why the Angosians were trying to hide Roga Danar away, when trying to apply for Federation membership; probably it was because of the ban on augmentation (TNG: "The Hunted").

 

[Tuskin38]

BTW, it's understandable why the Angosians were trying to hide Roga Danar away, when trying to apply for Federation membership; probably it was because of the ban on augmentation (TNG: "The Hunted").

Retroactively sure, but when that episode was written that ban didn't exist in canon.

 

[IRW Bloodwing]

As I recall, Starfleet Command relaxed its attitude towards Dal when Janeway pointed out that, while he is obviously a 'hybrid', he was not enhanced in any way. That's the kicker.

I mean, obviously there are individual Federation citizens with DNA from multiple races. Spock, for example. It took some genetic tinkering for Sarek and Amanda to even conceive Spock in the first place, and yet Spock faced no roadblocks in joining Starfleet (that we're aware of).

Once Janeway pointed out that Dal was in pretty much the same boat (the only difference being that Dal has DNA from dozens of races), Starfleet relented and allowed him to apply to the Academy.

So in the end, I'm not really seeing the 'racism' here.

Until she went to bat for him, they were fully committed to denying his application. Further, the fact that she had to remind them he even had a name is hideously racist. They were calling him "the Augment" the way a contemporary racist might use the n-word.

 

[IRW Bloodwing]

Dal does not have a race. Hence, any maltreatment of him cannot be racist.

Pedantic hair-splitting, at best, and doesn't change my point.