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the harsh realities of rewatching Next Generation

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Some of it I agree with, some I don't. Yeah it's clickbait, but so what. People here have said the same stuff over the years. The holodeck manufacturers would have been sued into oblivion by the end of the show for all the stupid shit they allowed to happen.

How?

Seems kinda hard to sue them into oblivion given that there's no money anymore in the Federation, they're only working for the betterment of mankind. Unless you intend to sue to get a license revoked they'd need for holodeck manufacturing :)

(In fact, wasn't this one of the reasons most socialist states went down economically? Insufficient incentive to improve upon your own (production) processes?)
 
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Some of it I agree with, some I don't. Yeah it's clickbait, but so what. People here have said the same stuff over the years.

That sounds like you're equating the often silly (sometimes VERY silly) talk that goes on here to little more than clickbait articles. That isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for quality discussion at TrekBBS.
 
Holodecks should not (easily?) become dangerous feels like at least way too little willingness to suspend disbelief in order to be entertained, I was able to do that, they generally did make me do that. And it was nice, interesting that the show portrayed holodecks as being new technology though later series changed that.

LaForge and Barclay having some flaws let alone questionable aspects is OK, the characters are usually criticized as overly, unrelatably perfect, fine that they be pretty idealized and yet not perfect.

"The Naked Now" and "Angel One" and much of Season 1 have always been criticized if not slammed, I think the critique of "Angel One" as just old-fashioned(!), for focusing on Riker(!), is really lacking and underwhelming. It was about gender equality rather than specifically about female empowerment and that's fine.

The episodes centered on Crusher and Troi "often had weaker storylines," no discussion of which ones were lesser or why (other than sure "Sub Rosa") is a very weak unconvincing claim, a lot of those episodes were fine or really good, I think not a quality difference from those that didn't.

Sure the episodes being mostly episodic led to some flaws and missed opportunities, which pretty much everyone acknowledges, but that's with a lot of television from that era and not a harsh part of rewatching the show, and there was still a lot of growth and some consequences.
 
That sounds like you're equating the often silly (sometimes VERY silly) talk that goes on here to little more than clickbait articles. That isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for quality discussion at TrekBBS.
Well I guess I have a different opinion on these kinds of articles and often find value in them, even if it is only a mindless distraction. Like I said, I think this article made similar points that people have made over the years so if my opinion is the articles have worth then I guess this site has worth.
How?

Seems kinda hard to sue them into oblivion given that there's no money anymore in the Federation, they're only working for the betterment of mankind. Unless you intend to sue to get a license revoked they'd need for holodeck manufacturing :)

(In fact, wasn't this one of the reasons most socialist states went down economically? Insufficient incentive to improve upon your own (production) processes?)
Yeah, I guess in a Star Trek more like our world and the holodeck did mess up as much as it did I would expect the manufacturers to get the law thrown at them or sued or whatever. In the actual Star Trek world where people are supposedly more responsible than people in our world I'm not thinking anything like that to happen. My Playstation has an epilepsy warning when I fire it up, so I think if a holodeck has even the slightest chance to literally kill you when the safeties go off, someone's gonna arc up.
 
Most of my issues with "Next Generation" are similar to my issues with "Deep Space Nine" and "Voyager". However, I must add that I found the Enterprise-D crew a bit too pretentious for my tastes and I hated how the writers constantly used the rape trope with Deanna Troi.
 
Well I guess I have a different opinion on these kinds of articles and often find value in them, even if it is only a mindless distraction. Like I said, I think this article made similar points that people have made over the years so if my opinion is the articles have worth then I guess this site has worth.

Oh, I'm not saying this site doesn't have worth. Sometimes I think it could have more worth if people stopped posting whatever stream-of-consciousness thoughts that comes into their heads. And let's face it, there is a lot of that here.
 
That sounds like you're equating the often silly (sometimes VERY silly) talk that goes on here to little more than clickbait articles. That isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for quality discussion at TrekBBS.
Because it's not always designed as quality. It's around conversation and relationship building based upon shared and mutual enjoyment, be it of Star Trek, pizza or whatever else strikes your fancy. The worth comes from the relationship not just words on the screen.
 
The thing about Geordi and Leah is... there were two episodes. Very different in creep level.

In "Booby Trap", Geordi creates a hologram of Leah Brahms to help him solve a problem. Nothing wrong with that. He gives it a personality to make it easier to work with. That's fine. He winds up kissing the thing. That's kind of outré, but understandable given earlier circumstances. But, that should have ended it.

In "Galaxy's Child", however... totally different game. Geordi assumed that the real thing would be like the hologram, and went into full Seduction Mode (complete with "that scene" in his quarters:barf:), it didn't even occur to him to get to know the real person (including that wise question "are you married?") And he didn't delete that "understandable but a bad idea" hologram of her, and when she discovered the truth, he should have simply, profusely apologized, because he was way, way, WAY out of line.
 
10 Harsh Realities Of Rewatching Star Trek: The Next Generation 29 Years Later (screenrant.com)

stupid writer at screenrant who probably never sat down and actually watched an episode of any Star trek show

10. the holodeck dangers being problematic
9 . Geordie and his creepy obsession with Leah Brahms
8. the Naked Now being a bad sequel to the original series. What does she mean by that exactly? How is it a "sequel"?

7. Angel One fails in critique of gender roles

6. Barclay and his holodeck fantasies
5. Dr Crusher's relationship with the family ghost being weird. ?
4. Civilian and casual clothes being laughable
3. the female characters got the worst storylines.
2. the episode structure hurt important character arcs
1. Code of Honor is racist. No duh, Rachel


I stopped reading anything from SR because of stuff like this. Essentially click bait site
 
I say this loving Levar Burton and the character of Geordi LaForge but, Geordi was creepy with women when he liked them. It seemed like the possibility of sex clouded his mind and he never knew what to say...too absorbed in himself to pay attention to the women he was seeing. Both he and Barclay were creepy in the holodeck. Both episodes were creepy. His little comments in the first one make my skin crawl...it seems obvious he's becoming attracted to the holo even while the ship is in danger and they all might die. The second one goes above and beyond to make him seem creepy but it makes more sense than when death is near...

DS9 addressed this issue way better with the great Combs being spectacularly creepy and Kira's absolute outrage that they tried to make a holo of her for sex purposes.

Angel One is very 80s but I still love it in a lot of ways...obviously. Yes, it has a binary conception of gender. However, making Riker dress up for a woman in a sexy outfit to get treated like a sex object was kind of a powerful twist on TOS era objectification. Obviously nowadays the line is that no one should get treated like a sex object, yet it still happens almost constantly so I'm not sure what the point is in that type of utopian thinking if we aren't going to stop.
 
Oh, I'm not saying this site doesn't have worth. Sometimes I think it could have more worth if people stopped posting whatever stream-of-consciousness thoughts that comes into their heads. And let's face it, there is a lot of that here.
Oh I never thought you were! I was always thinking the opposite, that you were defending this site and I was like "Hey I like this site too" but it probably come out abstract and convoluted.
 
on any show there will always be an episode that ends up being a bit "racist" and/or sexist.

Deal with it. early Next Generation still had some of the original series in it when Next Generation started back then. Deal with it and watch the rest of the show since the show gets better.

Deal with it or else dont watch the show and go watch something else then for cripes sake

You're gonna claim an episode about a planet of scary black men who want to take "our" white women isn't racist? That's the hill you're gonna die on?
 
In "Galaxy's Child", however... totally different game. Geordi assumed that the real thing would be like the hologram, and went into full Seduction Mode (complete with "that scene" in his quarters:barf:), it didn't even occur to him to get to know the real person (including that wise question "are you married?") And he didn't delete that "understandable but a bad idea" hologram of her, and when she discovered the truth, he should have simply, profusely apologized, because he was way, way, WAY out of line.

Hollow Pursuits is between Booby Trap and Galaxy's Child.
I'd think he would have erased the Leah hologram after what he saw in Hollow Pursuits. But apparently, he didn't.

<creepy thought> Except if that was 'program nine' and he and Barclay shared it together?
 
10 Harsh Realities Of Rewatching Star Trek: The Next Generation 29 Years Later (screenrant.com)

stupid writer at screenrant who probably never sat down and actually watched an episode of any Star trek show

10. the holodeck dangers being problematic

Forget "The power of love", as "the power of plotting" is more convenient than those safety overrides that constantly fail.

Indeed, if the show were reality, that ship (and Data, since I expect him to show up later in the list) would have been mothballed a lot earlier on.

9 . Geordie and his creepy obsession with Leah Brahms

Thank the computer for giving a 9.37%-inaccurate representation, especially as the same 'puter told Geordi earlier that personal files were classified. Apparently, the available information that Geordi could indirectly be told about had nothing citing her sex life. Even Geordi states her backrub was inappropriate. Not too shabby considering all that creepy stuff?

8. the Naked Now being a bad sequel to the original series. What does she mean by that exactly? How is it a "sequel"?

The episode clunkily explains it, as being a "variant", complete with stupid references to "the old Enterprise". Just enough that I'll buy into the claim, but - as with the original episode - explanations for this mystery mind-altering substance get spread and how come no other Federation ship would have figured it out? Because they're on a ship not named "Enterprise"? Again, that's stupid. Not nearly as stupid as how Data can be acquiring it or how Yar wants to bang it, but I'm avoiding the bunny trail and summarizing with: I don't think the questions are worthy of thought, but why not-- Other species spread the virus, which lies dormant, then in comes the rare Federation ship and the fun continues.

I guess.

Nope. It's an indulgent, stupidass drunkfest that's half-typical of season 1. Another shining example of (pejorative-filled, adjective-laden) dirge is "Justice".

TNG turned itself around, though the writer strike of the time ensured that some of season 2 would still be sullied. But I digress. Indeed, given season 1, how many people may have poked fun at that strike of the time as well? There's a fun question...

7. Angel One fails in critique of gender roles

How much of it was due to a rewrite, or how clumsy and token an effort put in - a high school creative writing class kid submission wouldn't have been much better...

Angel One (episode) | Memory Alpha | Fandom
(there's a fun yet read over a making-of that's more complex than what most would believe...)

6. Barclay and his holodeck fantasies

Barclay's holodeck fantasies, certainly.

Often, as means of catharsis, people don't create imagery of the people they want to beat up and/or screw, and thankfully this was made when censorship was stronger as - for once - what limited content was shown leaves more to the imagination, rendering it more creepy than anything Geordi ever did.

5. Dr Crusher's relationship with the family ghost being weird. ?

Even season 1 didn't get this awful. At least season 1 was finding itself, and lumbered with overtly and oversexualized drivel.

4. Civilian and casual clothes being laughable

You try designing clothing that may be popular from people hundreds of years from now. We've seen real life outfits deemed popular that look far worse )hello, 1960s and 1970s and 1980s and 1990s before the bland rot kicked in.) Hell, look at the 1600s. There's far more sartorial creativity, whether or not you like the visage or not. Modern shows that keep it "plain" have already dated worse.

Besides, older shows compensated for future sartorial designs by keeping then-popular hairdos. Again, 1960s and 1990s are flagrantly obvious in this regard,

3. the female characters got the worst storylines.

Is there an exception to every rule? Guinan often got the best material, either as being Troi's unofficial replacement or when dishing out some cool sci-fi ideas (e.g. a number of items from the Yesterday's Enterprise episode and the handful that followed in seasons 4 and 5.)

2. the episode structure hurt important character arcs

Conversely, arcs are tougher to do - especially if you throw in key concepts into **** epiosdes.

Not to mention, the arc better have a good payoff that also explains every instance credibly.

Not to mention, if enough audiences leave then the show is axed. "Babylon 5" is the perfect example of this, and fans were bummed. It was restarted for a 5th season, but too late to continue the arc as intended as season 4 rushed to close everything.

Arcs are overrated. Maybe that's why they weren't always done in the past, save for occasional references in a later episode but otherwise not getting overdone.

1. Code of Honor is racist. No duh, Rachel

So is "Justice", treating a race of beings with only specific and oversimplified attributes. Hell, that sums up the bulk of Star Trek races from the 60s and 90s too. Granted, people seem to miss CoH's point in that it's showing the "simpler" race being true to its codes all while Picard is violating the prime directive, either throwing volleys of photon torpedoes across the planet or interfering with the fight to the death... "Justice" (in both original draft and the slop that was filmed) also brought this up. Indeed, there's a payoff in a later episode of the season. Season 4 went back to the well of the prime directive for the Jean Simmons episode as well.
 
The second Leah Brahms episode is just awful, myopic male self-justification that makes Geordi look pathetic. Well, consider the source.

Quite!

"Galaxy's Child" drops the ball on this. Both characters had points, but the script has Geordi forgetting some things for the sake of the plot and there's one moment I found to be extremely vulgar. Maybe two...

what Geordi did was harmless.

Barclay, he went overboard a little bit with his weird holodeck sex fantasy with Troi which he should have put a password lock on it. at the same time Barcley was socially shy not entirely his fault

It bothers me that anyone can go in a holodeck and can easily access someone else's private or personal holodeck program

Technically harmless, but arguably creepy, I agree The computer still gets the bulk of the blame for offering to recreate personalities with a near-10% error rate, which is way too wide for misinterpretation. (Or is it a logic loophole? Considering Trek continues to reuse holodeck malfunctions, warp core breaches, is Data or the token fabricated
robot of the week is sentient and feels emotions, and so on, this bug would likely be left wide open and not patched. Gotta eke out more episodes for teh draaaaamaaaaaa!)

The crew clearly have "program files" starting with their names and continuing with numbers, though in the 21st century we'd probably have our name followed by a series of descriptive words. But then, if one was Riker, telling the holodeck computer to run "Riker _________" with all the passersby overhearing, who may or may not want to join in... assuming the crew actually use the holodecks for that purpose - we never see janitors or anyone else, so there are likely limits to what they do. It's easier just leave that to The Orville, anyway, since they've shown more single entendres than the lightly-suggestive double entendres TNG did.
 
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Deleted scene from Galaxy's Child:

<Geordi storms into the holodeck, very annoyed>
LaForge: Computer, when I asked you to use all available personality data of dr. Brahms, to 'create a true representation' of her, you told me there would be a 'nine point three seven percent margin of error in the interactive responses from the facsimile'! Yet you apparently never took into account the fact she was married and adjusted her most probable responses accordingly?
Computer: Pranked you! <robotic monotone voice> Ha! Ha! Ha!
 
Because it's not always designed as quality. It's around conversation and relationship building based upon shared and mutual enjoyment, be it of Star Trek, pizza or whatever else strikes your fancy. The worth comes from the relationship not just words on the screen.

Those friendly discussions over pizza are confined to that locale and that table though. On the internet, it goes out to everybody and the signal-to-noise ratio sometimes leans wayyyyy too far on the noise side. However, your point about building relationships (regardless of the venue) is well taken.
 
Those friendly discussions over pizza are confined to that locale and that table though. On the internet, it goes out to everybody and the signal-to-noise ratio sometimes leans wayyyyy too far on the noise side. However, your point about building relationships (regardless of the venue) is well taken.
Ok. But I'll take that higher noise ratio in finding some truly interesting signals from people. People need connections.
 
now youre being a damn idiot, buddy.

i never said that the episode isnt racist or sexist.

i said I dont care pretty much if it was totally "racist" or sexist. We all know that episode was pretty bad even these days but back then it wasn that frikking big of a deal.

but the younger folk like certain woman writers on sites like screenrant, they have to egg it on and start some stupid crap by bringing up stuff like what went on in Next Generation.

Also there were other old shows not just sci fi shows like Star trek that had sexist/racist episodes that weren that big of a deal at the time back then

go watch Married With Children. go watch the old 1960s Emma Peel Avengers tv show, go watch Baywatch which is half nakedf topless men where some of them were middle aged and out of shape and skinny gals with big boobs bouncing around with dumb episode story plots of arch enemies etc.

So dont bite my head off about these recent Harsh Realities of Star Trek articles from Screenrant. I'm not the frikkin writer of those aritcles. They were written by women by the way where THEY themselves had to bring up the whole misogyn/racist/sexist BS from the Star Trek shows.

thing is, there will always be a show whether its sci fi, comedy, horror or animation that will have the occasional "racist/sexist" attitude into an episode or two.

Just frikkin deal with it. If you dont like it then what the hell you doing watching a show in the first place if it bothers you that damn much where you have to be a lame blogger/writer on an entertainment website like screenrant or any kind of movie and tv show website?

You're gonna claim an episode about a planet of scary black men who want to take "our" white women isn't racist? That's the hill you're gonna die on?
 
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