Spoilers The Handmaid's Tale (TV series)

[Shaka Zulu]

Shout Factory (under license from MGM) has released (or rereleased) the 1990 movie on Blu-Ray, with a lot of bells and whistles;

The Handmaid's Tale (1990 movie)

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Those darn Canadian surrender-monkeys, they almost sold the farm. Thankfully, Nick and Luke were able to stop them in time. If June and Nick make it out of Gilead it could end up being an awkward reunion though. Speaking of which, this was now the second episode which ended with June declaring that she won't have her child being raised in Gilead. She'll have to come up with a pretty good plan real soon if this is going to happen, because so far she hasn't made any progress. In other news, Serena's loyalty towards Gilead seems to waiver a bit. Not completely unsurprising.


Favorite line:
Serena: "I would never betray my country."
U.S. government representative: "I thought you already did."

Take that, Serena! Someone who once stabbed a government in the back could do it again.

 

[The Nightmare Doctor]

"I would never, ever allow anything to happen to a baby."

Those are the first genuine words Aunt Lydia has spoken this whole series. I mean, I do think she truly believes all of the insane, awful bullshit has said since day one, but this time it's different. It was said with honesty. It was said with conviction. It was said with compassion. Between that moment and what she said about being a godmother a few moments later demonstrated that June made a real connection with Aunt Lydia and the truth was finally spoken between them. I don't hold any illusions this will change Aunt Lydia in the greater scheme of things, but it's nice to see some deeper nuance to her character.

What a cathartic episode for Luke and June and Moira. The Jezebel letters have been delivered and Canada is more furious than ever before (and hopefully the world at large, too). Nick told Luke how June is doing, that she's pregnant (but not the whole truth). In turn, Nick delivered good tidings to June that Luke is alive and loves her and that Moira successfully escaped. June had a moment of normalcy as she chuckled at the idea of Luke and Moira living together, knowing how much their personalities clash. Such a sweet, wonderful moment. And Moira was able to present herself in front of the commander to show she fucking escaped his monstrous country.

While there have been some great strides with Serena Joy's character this season, I didn't think she would defect, even if I mused on that possibility as they prepared to arrive in Canada. The moment is not right. She hasn't grown enough to earn that change yet. She needed to feel the real and terrible shame of what she has become, what she has created. The full trip in Canada offered that, ending with the Canadian female official questioning how Serena Joy could live with herself. The gears are beginning to turn now.

Favorite line:
Serena: "I would never betray my country."
U.S. government representative: "I thought you already did."

A lot of great lines this episode. That exchange, the Aunt Lyda quote I mentioned, June's final line, Moira's "Not Ruby, asshole."

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

You're right that it's probably too early for Serena to actually betray Gilead. Because for her that would also mean admitting that she was wrong all along, that she made a terrible mistake, and that she lived a lie these past few years. While she may know all of that to be true on some subconcious level, she still finds ways to rationalize her support for Gilead. Question is what will eventually break her and when will this happen? My guess is it will happen in conjunction with some rupture in her relationship with her husband. The first cracks seemed to have appeared when he whipped her with his belt in the previous episode...

 

[Shaka Zulu]

It's clear that the Gilead military is stretched fairly thin at the point when the series is set -- in season one, June mentions in her narration that the remnants of the U.S. military are still engaging with Gilead-forces across the country ("Now, the Guardians of the Faithful and American soldiers still fight with tanks in the remains of Chicago"), and that some regions of the country have yet to fully submit to their rule. However, given what was established about their war against the former U.S. government, I wouldn't think that they could pull too many front-line troops away to deal with internal strife without punching some big holes in their lines that the U.S. government troops could exploit.

This more than supports what I said earlier about Gilead not being able to invade Canada; it's way too busy fighting the rest of the (dis)United States.

 

[Timewalker]

I haven't seen the episode yet (won't be able to until next Sunday), but I do have a question: If Serena were to defect, how long would she realistically expect to be allowed to live, given the sheer depth of betrayal and the multiple war crimes and treasonous actions she perpetrated and abetted against the American government and ordinary citizens of that country?

If someone in Gilead doesn't kill her, the exiled American government will.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

I haven't seen the episode yet (won't be able to until next Sunday), but I do have a question: If Serena were to defect, how long would she realistically expect to be allowed to live, given the sheer depth of betrayal and the multiple war crimes and treasonous actions she perpetrated and abetted against the American government and ordinary citizens of that country?

If someone in Gilead doesn't kill her, the exiled American government will.

Or at least she'll be arrested, tried, sentenced (and probably executed) for said multiple war crimes and treasonous actions, including her time spent as member of a fascist organization (the Christofascist bullshit church she sang in the choir of as a young woman [as mentioned in the novel by Offred, but not seen in the movie or TV series] could be used against her in court.)

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Nice to see Toronto as Toronto, instead of Boston! Loved the shots of the motorcade on University Avenue.

This further enforces the ludicrousness of Gilead, however, and how such a thing ever happened. And yeah, asking Serena to defect back to the US is kind of like King George III asking Washington if he'd consider relocating to London. A surefire way to entrap a seditionist (of course, I feel Serena more than deserves what is coming to her for her idiotic Christofascist ideas).

I predict the season will end with her splitting from Fred and defecting, either to Canada or the US/Hawaii. S1 closed with the unsuccessful Handmaid revolt, S2 will end with a more successful one, with Gilead on the defensive.

 

[Timewalker]

Or at least she'll be arrested, tried, sentenced (and probably executed) for said multiple war crimes and treasonous actions

Of course that would have to wait until Gilead's fall, or she'd have to be extradited to Hawaii or Alaska.

There's no capital punishment in Canada, and I very much doubt that a foreign country would be allowed to carry out an execution on Canadian soil.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Of course that would have to wait until Gilead's fall, or she'd have to be extradited to Hawaii or Alaska.

There's no capital punishment in Canada, and I very much doubt that a foreign country would be allowed to carry out an execution on Canadian soil.

I did not say (or imply) that she'd be executed in Canada, I said that all of what you said would happen in the other United States.

 

[Timewalker]

No, that's not what you said, at least not precisely.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

No, that's not what you said, at least not precisely.

You said you haven't seen the episode. Shaka's comment makes perfect sense if you have, so why are you arguing? It has nothing to do with Canada. I can spoil it for you if you want.

 

[Timewalker]

You said you haven't seen the episode. Shaka's comment makes perfect sense if you have, so why are you arguing? It has nothing to do with Canada. I can spoil it for you if you want.

I am talking about the wording of a post. I don't need to have seen the episode for that.

But considering that there have been several unwarranted assumptions about Canada being tossed around here, if I've misunderstood anything, the cause was more than sufficient.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

I am talking about the wording of a post. I don't need to have seen the episode for that.

Yes you do, because you're misunderstanding the context of the discussion. You said:

If someone in Gilead doesn't kill her, the exiled American government will.

The reply was:

Or at least she'll be arrested, tried, sentenced (and probably executed) for said multiple war crimes and treasonous actions, ...

You said that doesn't happen in Canada. Shaka said:

I did not say (or imply) that she'd be executed in Canada, I said that all of what you said would happen in the other United States.

which you then said was not what he said. You are wrong here. His comment makes complete sense in terms of what happens in the episode.

 

[Timewalker]

stuff

You and I are done with this conversation.

 

[Shawnster]

That felt like a seas and finale!

Incredible.

For Serena Joy to be charged with war crimes, she would have to be in US Federal Custody. Canada cannot try her for war crimes unless Canada was at war with Gilead.

And even then, I don't know if there is enough evidence to try her. Or legal standing. Serena holds no government office. She is the wife of a commander. It's not like any of the Nazi wives were charged with war crimes no matter how they mistreated Jewish slaves. Not that I'm aware of.

Yes, Serena was instrumental in promoting Gilead's agenda prior to the transition. Since then she isn't legally allowed to write, let alone hold office.

Plus, what evidence is there?

My initial thought was take the handmaid letters to the press. Posting them online was a better solution. I knew the moment I saw the bundle they'd be more effective than any bomb.

State visit. Gilead diplomats. Gilead is recognized as a legitimate government by Canada. That in itself is an accomplishment.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

For Serena Joy to be charged with war crimes, she would have to be in US Federal Custody. Canada cannot try her for war crimes unless Canada was at war with Gilead.

The US government rep was trying to get Serena to defect to the US (Hawaii). Once on US soil, she could easily have been arrested.

 

[Timewalker]

Plus, what evidence is there?

Isn't witness testimony valid? June isn't the only person Serena ever abused, or who has knowledge of her part in creating Gilead.

 

[The Nightmare Doctor]

Isn't witness testimony valid? June isn't the only person Serena ever abused, or who has knowledge of her part in creating Gilead.

Well, June isn't out yet. They probably don't have much evidence against at this junction, so if she had defected, they probably couldn't charge her due to lack of immediate evidence.

 

[Shawnster]

Is Serena joy any different than the spouse of a Nazi officer or government official? Were any of those spouses tried for war crimes?