*~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*

[Tachyon]

Oh yes - C/7 sucks. It's as simple as that.

I have no reason whatsoever to boycott Full Circle. I am happy that Voyager is getting another book of its own, and all the possible J/Cness in it, no matter what becomes of Janeway.

If I don't like the story when I have read the book, I'll bitch and whine then. But before that, I am happy that the gang from my favorite series is having a book of their own without being irrelevant minor characters in a TNG book.

 

[neogothboy74]

I'm looking forward to 'Full Circle' as well. I'm reading the 4 previous relaunch books at the moment to prepare for it; I'm in the early chapters of the first one. The C/7 thing seems to have been nipped in the bud - thankfully.

 

[Tachyon]

I'm looking forward to 'Full Circle' as well. I'm reading the 4 previous relaunch books at the moment to prepare for it; I'm in the early chapters of the first one. The C/7 thing seems to have been nipped in the bud - thankfully.

It was, thank goodness.

For me the four relaunces fell in the "okay" category. There were things in them I did not like much, but there were some good elements, too.

Homecoming has the most adorable J/C moment in there.

 

[Lynx]

Honestly, I do think there are better J/C fanfiction stories available than a book in which the death of a beloved main character is confirmed.

I used to like the books and I did regard the books as the ongoing story of the Voyager crew but with the current policy of those in charge of the books, I don't want anything to do with them anymore. I prefer the books which were written during seasons 1-3, before unnecessary changes and deliberate character destruction started. They are great.

As for the situation of today, fanfiction rules!

 

[Lynx]

Not to mention that we don't know what will happen in the upcoming books. With Janeway out of the picture, they might revive the old C/7 again. Those in charge of "official Trek" do have a bad habit of annoying the fans.

 

[Tachyon]

I still have confidence in KB that she will provide us good story within the framework she had to work. In Full Circle she will be very much alive (until she dies). Because KB likes Janeway and Voyager in general, I believe she is the right person to write about her, and I am glad she has written Full Circle instead of someone else.

Once our dear Janeway is dead in Full Circle, it might be my last Voyager book I purchase, if she ain't coming back. But you never know what might happen. Though I am quite skeptic about the resurrection of C/7. I think it is acknowledged outside of J/C fandom as well that it was a rotten idea in the first place.

 

[Praetor]

I ask you, dear peers, is it wrong that with the exception of the books written by, say, a Jeri Taylor, I tend to equate the books at the same level as fan fiction? For example, I would give each equal 'authority' to interpret events, even if the books are actual books. I guess that's more a reflection on how I view the books than anything else.

That is not meant to be an insult to either, by the way. Just my view. YMMV.

 

[Tachyon]

I ask you, dear peers, is it wrong that with the exception of the books written by, say, a Jeri Taylor, I tend to equate the books at the same level as fan fiction? For example, I would give each equal 'authority' to interpret events, even if the books are actual books. I guess that's more a reflection on how I view the books than anything else.

That is not meant to be an insult to either, by the way. Just my view. YMMV.

It is not wrong and I don't think you are not alone with your views. Some take book more seriously, treating them like canon, others wouldn't care less. So to each to their own.

 

[kimc]

While I believe that KB has done the best she good with the steaming pile she was handed I have to say that while there is good fanfiction out there with Janeway very much alive I have no current need for the books.

If Janeway were brought back and she and Chakotay were written as adults then I'd start reading them again.

 

[MilitantJaneway]

While I believe that KB has done the best she good with the steaming pile she was handed I have to say that while there is good fanfiction out there with Janeway very much alive I have no current need for the books.

If Janeway were brought back and she and Chakotay were written as adults then I'd start reading them again.

I agree with KimC dead janeway is really not my thing. I read some of the excerpts on the amazon site and KB has done a fabulous job and now I feel even more ripped off, that they finally get together and she dies argh! Another big betrayal

 

[Brit]

I ask you, dear peers, is it wrong that with the exception of the books written by, say, a Jeri Taylor, I tend to equate the books at the same level as fan fiction? For example, I would give each equal 'authority' to interpret events, even if the books are actual books. I guess that's more a reflection on how I view the books than anything else.

That is not meant to be an insult to either, by the way. Just my view. YMMV.

I don't think you are wrong at all, what I do think is wrong is this push to "make the books" canon. There wouldn't have been near the uproar if people had not been saying, "Trek isn't being filmed any longer so the books are canon."

I also think that the Trek Writers have a lot in common with the fic writers, they just get paid for it. I will agree that a lot of fan fiction isn't nearly the level of writing they produce but there is some that is. I can think of one person in particular that could produce a great "Trek Novel". Her fic while it does lean a little toward the Romance, is Action Adventure and the AA comes first.

 

[ria 75]

I just finished reading one of my favorite fanfics which I thought I would share. Feel free to post any of YOUR favorites - I'm always looking for new ones to read.

http://www.geocities.com/elizabeth_barr/25days.htm

I just read it. Thanks kimc. I enjoyed it. I had hearty laughs, especially as I am on the buzz of a chocolate spree (my drug of choice). I have frozen chocolate cake that I gobble up before it has a chance to defreeze. It sort of tastes like rich ice cream.

 

[neogothboy74]

I ask you, dear peers, is it wrong that with the exception of the books written by, say, a Jeri Taylor, I tend to equate the books at the same level as fan fiction? For example, I would give each equal 'authority' to interpret events, even if the books are actual books. I guess that's more a reflection on how I view the books than anything else.

That is not meant to be an insult to either, by the way. Just my view. YMMV.

I don't think that's wrong of you or anyone else. And even if I did, the idea of debating canon seems like a rather fruitless, frustrating, and rather pointless argument. I think canon is subjective; canon is in the eye of the beholder. Who does it hurt that some people equate the novels to fan fiction? I mean, it doesn't hurt anyone to consider them canon either. There are even episodes that I don't consider canon. "Threshold"? To my way of thinking, it never happend. lol. And my decision to not accept that episode can't really hurt the feelings of someone who loves that episode, can it? I mean...I don't tell them it didn't happen for them. I don't argue with them about it and insist that my way is the only way...because it's not the only way. Anyone can interpret Star Trek or Star Wars or Xena or whatever in any way that they choose and it doesn't have to diminish the enjoyment of those shows (or novels or fics) for anyone else.

I also think that the Trek Writers have a lot in common with the fic writers, they just get paid for it. I will agree that a lot of fan fiction isn't nearly the level of writing they produce but there is some that is. I can think of one person in particular that could produce a great "Trek Novel".

I would take that a step further and say that there are fics that are better than the novels, or even the episodes & films; that the writers for the shows and films just get paid for it. A filmed episode started with a script and not all of those scripts can please everyone all of the time. I don't think I should have to accept that script just because it was produced; I don't think an episode is any more valid to me as a fan, than a novel or a fic. I'm not saying that this is how it should be for everyone else. I certainly didn't always feel this way. But for me, in the here and now, as a fan I can cherry pick what I like and take that for my own and discard the rest. I find it very satisfying. And I've never really spoken about this before; I've never expressed that I do this, but I suspect that I'm not alone in this view.

I understand that the people producing Trek, and writing Trek novels have to have their own view on what canon is; they have to have a system for this, that they can mostly agree on in order to function. And that's fine. I just don't accept that their way has to be a universal constant for everyone else.

And to bring this back to the point of the thread, in my subjective Trek world view, Janeway and Chakotay love each other as more than just friends, no matter what any story or episode may have implied to the contrary. And people can interpret their interactions any other way that they like; it doesn't offend me. But it doesn't shake my love of J/C either.

 

[Praetor]

Very well said, neogothboy74.

 

[Dingo]

Well, I wish they'd actually satisfied J/C shippers by putting them together in Endgame. I admit I'm a Janeway/Chakotay fan myself.

In the actual service fraternization is a no-no. It would not do for an XO and a CO to have an intimate relationship, because it could potentially screw with either of their professionalism. So I agree with fans that say there'd have to be a damned compelling reason for Janeway and Chakotay to break protocol on that one.

I could, however, see a post-Endgame (I know in the Voyager novels Seven and Chakotay break up) future where Chakotay teaches Paleontology at Starfleet Academy and Janeway's rising up the command track.

 

[kimc]

I just finished reading one of my favorite fanfics which I thought I would share. Feel free to post any of YOUR favorites - I'm always looking for new ones to read.

http://www.geocities.com/elizabeth_barr/25days.htm

I just read it. Thanks kimc. I enjoyed it. I had hearty laughs, especially as I am on the buzz of a chocolate spree (my drug of choice). I have frozen chocolate cake that I gobble up before it has a chance to defreeze. It sort of tastes like rich ice cream.

I'm glad you enjoyed it even though the last thing I need is even more ideas on how ways to indulge in chocolate.

 

[Brit]

In the actual service fraternization is a no-no. It would not do for an XO and a CO to have an intimate relationship, because it could potentially screw with either of their professionalism. So I agree with fans that say there'd have to be a damned compelling reason for Janeway and Chakotay to break protocol on that one.

I've seen this argued both ways and I do understand where people are coming from with this but I think that there is a point being missed.

Not having a relationship doesn't necessarily mean that one's professionalism would be or would not be screwed with. By that I mean, humans cannot control their feelings. They can only control their actions.

So now you have a couple with definite feelings for each other, feelings that they cannot control, but they control their actions and do not act on those feelings. That situation can also screw with their professionalism. The denial of a relationship can be just as devastating and the results can be just as unprofessional as acting on one.

That's why I go back to the notion that ethics control relationships. We are now learning that people in good relationships live longer, they are healthier and they make better decisions. People can deal with a lot of things, and I think that the evolved people of the future can deal with relationships on star ships.

Brit

 

[joyofvgr]

I share your view on this, Brit.

 

[Tachyon]

For the tension's sake I would have rather not see J and C getting together on Voyager, but wrestling with their feelings more openly. Especially in the later seasons where Janeway seemed to be more in love with her work than with her personal life (which she didn't seem to even have that much).

That's why Workforce's orginial idea would have absolutely been brilliant for me. Damn at TPTB who ditched the idea.

 

[Praetor]

Damn indeed. Stupid episode waste of potential.

The thing about having them get together on the ship for me is this and I've said it before but I do have a new/relevant point: if they'd have chosen to do it, then it could have forced them to re-evaluate a lot of other regulations and behaviors that are natural Starfleet things - formalities and whatnot.

And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. It might have actually been good for them to explore and develop their own cultural identity as a ship more than they did, and then of course if and when they got home, that would all be called more into question. What I'm guess I'm saying is that even though everyone agreed to be Starfleet officers, it might have been more interesting if three or four years down the road a lot of people - Starfleet and Maquis - had developed mixed feelings. It might have even been interesting had Paris/Torres been an issue. I think ultimately having them pick and choose which regulations they were going to follow leading to a moral shipwide moral crisis would have been great.

Things that weren't done like that make me so frustrated. See, as you folks well know by now, I love 'Voyager.' There are just so many wasted opportunities - so close yet not quite there, ya know? 'Voyager' started out with a little edge (not as much as it could have been) but along the way they flinched. Even more disappointing than 'Enterprise', which for me was more or less a train wreck from day one.

Okay, rant over.