The Great Bird on Klingon Forehead Ridges

[Christopher]

The Enterprise could cover 1000 light years in 12 hours at warp 8.4. It also visited the galactic rim and centre within five years, half of Voyager's 70-year journey in Starfleet's fastest ship ar warp 9.975.

The rim isn't a problem, since the galaxy is a flat disk and space travel is not limited to two dimensions. The nearest edge of the galactic thin disk is less than a thousand light years away. And the Enterprise was heading for the Andromeda Galaxy when it crossed the barrier in "By Any Other Name," and the straight-line path to Andromeda would be through the face of the galactic disk, not the outer edge.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

It just occurred to me that DC Comics first run, set immediately after TWK, had, (and, forgive me, I can't remember which Klingon), Kor, Koloth, or Kang appear in a couple of issues as their TMP version.
Later appearances would look more closely like their appearance in DS9.

 

[Gratty]

The new variant looked like one of the races from a Gene Roddenberry 70's pilot that I can't remember the name of right now.

That was Planet Earth staring John Saxon; and, I've seen a couple of YouTube reviews that point out the same thing.

Thanks for the reminder from me too. I watched Planet Earth along with Genesis II about a year ago. Now I feel like revisiting it.

 

[Christopher]

It just occurred to me that DC Comics first run, set immediately after TWK, had, (and, forgive me, I can't remember which Klingon), Kor, Koloth, or Kang appear in a couple of issues as their TMP version.

I think they all appeared in ridged form at some point in DC Volume 1, or at least Koloth and Kor did. Koloth was in the opening 2-parter (and was killed at the end!), and Kor in the immediately following 2-parter. Although Annual 2 a few years later also featured Koloth but portrayed him with his TOS look.

 

[Gratty]

It just occurred to me that DC Comics first run, set immediately after TWK, had, (and, forgive me, I can't remember which Klingon), Kor, Koloth, or Kang appear in a couple of issues as their TMP version.
Later appearances would look more closely like their appearance in DS9.

I might have to dig that out too - I have most of that DC run.

They also introduced a Klingon member of Starfleet predating Worf by 4 or 5 years, original to the comics, whose name escapes me at the moment. I think it began with a "K

Of course he didn't survive shifts in licensing. Also, Kirk was in command of the Excelsior, another element that was rendered completely invalid with the release of TSFS. Reminds me of what would happen to the Marvel comics Star Wars stories published between ANH + ESB then ESB + ROTJ.

One more thing (said Columbo), it also featured a Horta member of Starfleet, one of the thousands born to Mama Horta in "The Devil in the Dark." Pretty sure his (its? their?) name was Naraht. I also think the character was originally introduced by Diane Duane in one of her books. Maybe The Wounded Sky, which was also loosely adapted by Duane herself for TNG's "Where No One Has Gone Before."

I can do this all day.

cheers

 

[Count Darcula70]

The Enterprise could cover 1000 light years in 12 hours at warp 8.4. It also visited the galactic rim and centre within five years, half of Voyager's 70-year journey in Starfleet's fastest ship ar warp 9.975.

If we go by that logic voyager can't exist in the same universe as SNW or Disco either.

 

[Gratty]

Wait. Was the "Kirk commanding Excelsior" storyline actually between TSFS and TVH? If so, which ship was he commanding in the run between TWOK & TSFS?

I'd say that my memory isn't what it used to be, but how would I know?

 

[Gratty]

Yeesh. Of course it was Enterprise. I really hafta proofread this stuff a little better.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

I might have to dig that out too - I have most of that DC run.

They also introduced a Klingon member of Starfleet predating Worf by 4 or 5 years, original to the comics, whose name escapes me at the moment. I think it began with a "K

Of course he didn't survive shifts in licensing. Also, Kirk was in command of the Excelsior, another element that was rendered completely invalid with the release of TSFS. Reminds me of what would happen to the Marvel comics Star Wars stories published between ANH + ESB then ESB + ROTJ.

One more thing (said Columbo), it also featured a Horta member of Starfleet, one of the thousands born to Mama Horta in "The Devil in the Dark." Pretty sure his (its? their?) name was Naraht. I also think the character was originally introduced by Diane Duane in one of her books. Maybe The Wounded Sky, which was also loosely adapted by Duane herself for TNG's "Where No One Has Gone Before."

I can do this all day.

cheers

That was Konom, he married Nancy Bryce and adopted the half-human/half-Klingon albino Bernie, who would later show up as an Ambassador in one of Peter David's TNG novels.

Diane Duane wrote two issues of Vol. 1 where she ported over several of her characters from her Rhihannsu novels, including the Horta.

 

[Turtletrekker]

That was Konom, he married Nancy Bryce and adopted the half-human/half-Klingon albino Bernie, who would later show up as an Ambassador in one of Peter David's TNG novels.

Strike Zone.

 

[Christopher]

Also, Kirk was in command of the Excelsior, another element that was rendered completely invalid with the release of TSFS.

No, the comics gave Kirk temporary command of the Excelsior after TSFS, because Paramount asked DC not to do anything that might conflict with plans for the next movie. So DC set up a placeholder status quo where Kirk was temporarily given the Excelsior and the revived Spock was given command of a different ship so that he wouldn't interact much with the rest of the cast. When the time came to lead into The Voyage Home, they did a storyline that undid those changes and reset the status quo. Nothing was "rendered invalid"; it was all done in coordination with Paramount and designed to dovetail with the movies.

Although it didn't quite work, as it turned out, because the storyline leading into TVH, by Len Wein and Gray Morrow, erroneously assumed the Klingon Bird-of-Prey was small enough to have been carried in the Excelsior's shuttlebay the whole time, even though earlier issues by Mike Barr, Tom Sutton, and Ricardo Villagran had correctly shown the BoP as large enough that it had to be tractored behind the Excelsior, tucked into its aft undercut.

Reminds me of what would happen to the Marvel comics Star Wars stories published between ANH + ESB then ESB + ROTJ.

That's the exact same situation. Nothing "happened" to them, because the writers and editors of those comics coordinated with Lucasfilm and made sure not to cover any story areas that might conflict with the moviemakers' plans. That's why the comics rarely had any confrontations between the main cast and Darth Vader, and why their storylines focused mainly on original situations, species, and guest characters rather than things that might be covered in the movies or that Lucasfilm specifically asked them to avoid.

One more thing (said Columbo), it also featured a Horta member of Starfleet, one of the thousands born to Mama Horta in "The Devil in the Dark." Pretty sure his (its? their?) name was Naraht. I also think the character was originally introduced by Diane Duane in one of her books. Maybe The Wounded Sky, which was also loosely adapted by Duane herself for TNG's "Where No One Has Gone Before."

Yes, Naraht appeared in a couple of issues that Duane herself wrote for the comic, as did other of her novel characters like Harb Tanzer and Lia Burke.

"Where No One Has Gone Before" was written by Duane and Michael Reaves. I believe it started with Reaves coming up with an idea that he realized was similar to The Wounded Sky, so he asked Duane to collaborate with him. But the TNG writing staff rewrote the script so heavily that hardly any of Duane's or Reaves's work remained.

 

[fireproof78]

If only fans could take that and just go with it. Suspend their disbelief and enjoy.

Instead people get mad that the Strange New Worlds ship and sets aren't identical to the classic show. The need for everything to line up exactly is robbing so many of just taking the shows as they're intended.

Used to watch old soaps and they'd just randomly swap cast members to quite different looking people... but we played along.

Why can't Trekkies? Too many childhood timeline books convinced you the old shows synced flawlessly when TOS and Voyager absolutely cannot fit into the same universe?

...rant over.

1000%.

No, it doesn't fit together. It's pretend and let's enjoy it.

 

[Scott_Nixon]

OK, since it looks like no one answered your question about the quote, I figured I'd chime in.
I remember it (and have confirmed it through the miracle of the inter-web) as not an actual quote, but a 'conjectured' quote by Leslie Thompson in an article from Trek (fan)magazine named "The Klingons (?) In Star Trek: The Motion Picture."

Here's the relevant quote from the article:
"But it was obviously a money decision. A decision that was the exact opposite of those faced by the series. In those days, a lack of money was usually the problem. In the case of Star Trek: The Morion Picture, the problem was too much money.
When you have millions of dollars to spend, there is a great amount of pressure to spend it on something, lest it be taken away. And in the case of the Klingons, it was more expedient to make them completely over than to not spend the money and stay with the established image. It is now very easy for Roddenberry and staff to say, 'Look at the care and effort we took on the movie. We could never do the Klingons right on television because we didn’t have the time or money, but now we do. So this is the way the Klingons really look, and we were just fooling you before.'"

I don't know what issue of Trek the article was in; I remember it from being in "The Best Of Trek #3" paperback book.

Hope this helps!

--Scott

 

[Christopher]

I'm sure I've seen other references to Roddenberry mentioning the Klingon change in response to fan questions at conventions. I recall one comment about the "transmissions from the future" having interference, or something facetious like that. I don't recall where, though.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

It's interesting that Star Trek's sister show at Desilu, Mission: Impossible was crafting elaborate prosthetics for Martin Landau and later Leonard Nimoy on an almost weekly basis with a budget almost the same as that of Star Trek; and, yet, Star Trek couldn't craft a series of appliances for an alien species that made seven appearances over the course of three seasons and 79 episodes.​

 

[mb22]

It's interesting that Star Trek's sister show at Desilu, Mission: Impossible was crafting elaborate prosthetics for Martin Landau and later Leonard Nimoy on an almost weekly basis with a budget almost the same as that of Star Trek; and, yet, Star Trek couldn't craft a series of appliances for an alien species that made seven appearances over the course of three seasons and 79 episodes.​

From what I've read, the original Klingon look was created by Fred Phillips while making up John Colicos for "Errand of Mercy" and based on the stereotypical 'Genghis Khan' Mongol look (the script describes them as 'Orientals' and 'hard faced'). At that point no one had any idea the Klingons would make any more appearances on the show and weren't going to come up with anything too elaborate.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Depicting_Klingons#First_televised_appearances

 

[Christopher]

From what I've read, the original Klingon look was created by Fred Phillips while making up John Colicos for "Errand of Mercy" and based on the stereotypical 'Genghis Khan' Mongol look (the script describes them as 'Orientals' and 'hard faced'). At that point no one had any idea the Klingons would make any more appearances on the show and weren't going to come up with anything too elaborate.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Depicting_Klingons#First_televised_appearances

Also, "Errand of Mercy" called for a large number of Klingon extras in certain scenes. Even in the TNG-era shows and some of the streaming-era shows, alien species that appear in large numbers tend to have simple makeups, since putting elaborate makeups on a large number of actors and extras would either take too much time or require paying to hire extra makeup artists. So if there are only one or two aliens in an episode, they can have elaborate makeup, but if there are dozens, they'll probably look nearly human.

 

[Shawnster]

There was still no reason for them. The "Trials and Tribble-ations" dialogue was an in-joke and should've been left as such.

Or, as I saw suggested on here, just do Michael Dorn up in the TOS era makeup and never acknowledge any difference in appearance.

 

[Turtletrekker]

That Gene Roddenberry considered this how Klingons always looked is from Cinfantastique # 37.

He also had a theory that there were a variety of Klingon races that comes from Star Trek communicator issue 145.

Gene Roddenberry was the one who suggested that the Klingon head ridges be an extension of their spine and that comes from Star Trek magazine 172.

The "Planet Earth" connection comes from the aforementioned Cinefantastique # 37.

You can find all of this information and more at the following link. Hope this helps.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Depicting_Klingons?utm_

 

[Gratty]

Here's the relevant quote from the article:
"But it was obviously a money decision. A decision that was the exact opposite of those faced by the series. In those days, a lack of money was usually the problem. In the case of Star Trek: The Morion Picture, the problem was too much money.
When you have millions of dollars to spend, there is a great amount of pressure to spend it on something, lest it be taken away. And in the case of the Klingons, it was more expedient to make them completely over than to not spend the money and stay with the established image. It is now very easy for Roddenberry and staff to say, 'Look at the care and effort we took on the movie. We could never do the Klingons right on television because we didn’t have the time or money, but now we do. So this is the way the Klingons really look, and we were just fooling you before.'"

I don't know what issue of Trek the article was in; I remember it from being in "The Best Of Trek #3" paperback book

Thanks for the detailed reply! That all makes sense - and I’m hearing a lot of variations on the theme. One thing is certain: GR talked about it more than once. Probably true for just about everything…

I remember that the budget of TMP was record-breaking at the time, often overshadowing anything else in the press.

When you cited The Best of Trek #3, I rushed to my bookshelf. I have #2 and #4 but not #3. D’OH!

I also have 10, 13, 14, 15, 16, 18, the unnumbered The Best of Trek, and The Best of the Best of Trek. I read them ravenously 30 something years ago but haven’t blown off the dust since.

thanks again

cheers