The Gorn…

[Warped9]

In the Fan Art forum I’m presently working on a design for the Gorn ship referenced in “Arena” as part of my Unseen TOS project. I’m exploring what Matt Jefferies or Wah Chang could have designed and had constructed with the resources at hand and strictly from the perspective of what influences, both real world and fictional, they could be aware of back when the show was being produced.

At any rate while working on the design I thought about the Gorn’s behaviour.

The first we learn of the Gorn, and apparently the first The Federation learns of them, is when they irradicate the Cestus 3 outpost without warning. Their justification was they saw the outpost as an intrusion into their space. But no mention of the Gorn warning Federation ships not to trespass into their territory or no prior warnings to vacate the planet first. Just sudden attack and destruction.

Why no prior warnings? Or how did the Gorn not even notice anyone intruding into their space until the outpost was already established?

From the Federation’s viewpoint no one seemed to be around to object to them establishing an outpost in that system. No wonder Kirk initially sees it as an unprovoked attack. If the Gorn are so territorial then why no advance warning the Federation they were intruding into Gorn space?

 

[publiusr]

Shades of “The Doom that Came to Sarnath” I suppose:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doom_That_Came_to_Sarnath

Bokrug’s reptilian anger was slow—but sure.

At Gombe, chimps get in each other’s face at once over a slight…but the crocodile? He will bask for a time…let a few zebra cross…THEN strike. No approach/avoidance dance…no posturing…

Funny
https://forum.cosmoquest.org/forum/...e/3712769-grabby-aliens?p=3713814#post3713814

 

[Phaser Two]

In the Fan Art forum I’m presently working on a design for the Gorn ship referenced in “Arena” as part of my Unseen TOS project. I’m exploring what Matt Jefferies or Wah Chang could have designed and had constructed with the resources at hand and strictly from the perspective of what influences, both real world and fictional, they could be aware of back when the show was being produced.

At any rate while working on the design I thought about the Gorn’s behaviour.

The first we learn of the Gorn, and apparently the first The Federation learns of them, is when they irradicate the Cestus 3 outpost without warning. Their justification was they saw the outpost as an intrusion into their space. But no mention of the Gorn warning Federation ships not to trespass into their territory or no prior warnings to vacate the planet first. Just sudden attack and destruction.

Why no prior warnings? Or how did the Gorn not even notice anyone intruding into their space until the outpost was already established?

From the Federation’s viewpoint no one seemed to be around to object to them establishing an outpost in that system. No wonder Kirk initially sees it as an unprovoked attack. If the Gorn are so territorial then why no advance warning the Federation they were intruding into Gorn space?

Great question. One of the issues some fans had with SNW was the "retconning" of the Gorn, whereas I just saw it as a non-homogeneous race with several factions (like the Xindi), and Pike and Co. meeting a faction different to that Kirk and Crew encountered. So perhaps there was internal Gorn strife about how to address the apparent Federation threat, and the warlike elements won out or acted on their own.

 

[Shawnster]

Why no prior warnings? Or how did the Gorn not even notice anyone intruding into their space until the outpost was already established?

To add to your confusion, the Gorn were skillful enough to send the Enterprise communications disguised as Cestus III personnel, and savvy enough to request which officers the Enterprise should include in the landing party.

So, it's not like they lacked the intellect to communicate a warning.

 

[Warped9]

It could simply be the the system where Cestus III existed was one the Gorn just up and decided they wanted. They claimed the Federation intruded into their space, but that doesn’t automatically mean it was true. And if the Gorn truly wanted to exercise their territorial claim then why do so with only one ship rather than a squadron or fleet?

One would like to think the Federation would do its due diligence in trying to make sure they weren’t setting up camp in someone else’s yard.

 

[fireproof78]

They claimed the Federation intruded into their space, but that doesn’t automatically mean it was true.

I never believed it. Always thought it was a pretense for war, which was why the Metron interfered.

 

[blssdwlf]

It is entirely possible that the Federation colonists and Starfleet missed or didn't understand any of the warnings left by the Gorn that it was their volume of space. Like the Federation, the Gorn only had a single ship patrolling this volume of space so the captain used deception to attack and destroy the outpost and hoped to do the same with the Enterprise to minimize Gorn casualties.

Doubtful it was a pretense for war given the lack of a Gorn fleet involved.

 

[Warped9]

One could draw a parallel here between the Gorn and the Romulans a century earlier, only with no omnipotent aliens like the Metrons to interfere.

A century earlier the Romulans could have taken exception to Earth ships in space the Romulans considered theirs. They didn’t bother trying to warn Earth ships off, but just started picking them off. In the beginning Earth would just start wondering why their ships keep disappearing in that part of space. The reason becomes clear soon enough and the war is on.

 

[drt]

It could simply be the the system where Cestus III existed was one the Gorn just up and decided they wanted. They claimed the Federation intruded into their space, but that doesn’t automatically mean it was true. And if the Gorn truly wanted to exercise their territorial claim then why do so with only one ship rather than a squadron or fleet?

One would like to think the Federation would do its due diligence in trying to make sure they weren’t setting up camp in someone else’s yard.

This is where I always landed.

As you mention, the episode only states that the Gorn claimed Cestus III, it was never confirmed. Plus, from initial discovery to actually setting up a colony is a process that should take years. Presumably they would have surveyed nearby systems and determined they weren't inhabited, so one would think that any Gorn claims were tenuous at best.

 

[johnnybear]

Maybe it was a part of Gorn space that they rarely visited or patrolled at the time? Then they picked up numerous signals and spacecraft moving into orbit around their planet (I doubt they called it Cestus III themselves) Discovering these intruders had advanced weaponry and had already set up a base or living quarters, the Gorn commander decided to attack! Then once they had deciphered human communications and learned of the Federation and it's many ships and Captains they sent a message to the Enterprise to lure them in after they detected it moving into their space!
JB

 

[Dukhat]

Great question. One of the issues some fans had with SNW was the "retconning" of the Gorn, whereas I just saw it as a non-homogeneous race with several factions (like the Xindi), and Pike and Co. meeting a faction different to that Kirk and Crew encountered. So perhaps there was internal Gorn strife about how to address the apparent Federation threat, and the warlike elements won out or acted on their own.

That still doesn’t explain Kirk’s unfamiliarity with the race’s name. But alas, this is not the forum to debate this.

 

[fireproof78]

Doubtful it was a pretense for war given the lack of a Gorn fleet involved.

A fleet would be too obvious. As Spock notes there is only rumor and speculation around this sector.

 

[Quantum21]

Internal strife kept them from noticing?

I would like to think SNW will answer why if they were "wronged" as McCoy suggests, they appear to be so menacing now.

Clearly one reason is the producers didn't want another Ferengi adversary misfire, but I hope we find out more.

 

[blssdwlf]

A fleet would be too obvious. As Spock notes there is only rumor and speculation around this sector.

TOS was rather obvious with their writing. In "Balance of Terror" we know from dialogue a successful return of the Romulan ship would result in the Romulans kicking off a war. The Gorn captain doesn't mention any fleet action at all and pretty much laid out why Cestus III was destroyed.

 

[fireproof78]

TOS was rather obvious with their writing. In "Balance of Terror" we know from dialogue a successful return of the Romulan ship would result in the Romulans kicking off a war. The Gorn captain doesn't mention any fleet action at all and pretty much laid out why Cestus III was destroyed.

We also had a measure of divine intervention though too.

 

[Warped9]

The Gorn captain…pretty much laid out why Cestus III was destroyed.

Thats what he says. That doesn’t automatically make it true.

If we accept the idea the Gorn ship was a solitary vessel on patrol and came across the Cestus III outpost established by the Federation on a planet the Gorn considered their own what were its options?
- Notify higher command and perhaps await instructions.
- Initiate contact with the Cestus III outpost and inform them they are trespassing, wherein the outpost hails Starfleet, “Hey, guys we got a problem.”

The Gorn likely did the former, but they certainly didn’t do the latter. They just set about destroying the outpost totally. And they had to have been planning it for some time because they managed to lure the Enterprise with a fake message intending to destroy it as well.

The last part didn’t go as planned because they weren’t able to destroy the Enterprise so they then chose to run. The remaining question is: were they running to escape a foe who appeared stronger than they expected or were they trying to lure the Enterprise into another trap such as a squadron of Gorn ships waiting further ahead? We don’t know because the Metrons stepped in to break up the fight.

 

[blssdwlf]

Thats what he says. That doesn’t automatically make it true.

From a certain point of view it was true I'm sure the Gorn captain probably was wondering if Kirk was speaking the truth, too.

If we accept the idea the Gorn ship was a solitary vessel on patrol and came across the Cestus III outpost established by the Federation on a planet the Gorn considered their own what were its options?
- Notify higher command and perhaps await instructions.
- Initiate contact with the Cestus III outpost and inform them they are trespassing, wherein the outpost hails Starfleet, “Hey, guys we got a problem.”

That's attributing a Starfleet approach to the encounter though. A Gorn approach might be:
Assume the intruders are establishing an outpost to expand further into Gorn space therefore it and any supporting ships must be destroyed to discourage further expansion.

Remember that Kirk's response was to destroy the attacking ship to discourage further attacks. Why can't an alien race like the Gorn take a pre-emptive approach?

The Gorn likely did the former, but they certainly didn’t do the latter. They just set about destroying the outpost totally. And they had to have been planning it for some time because they managed to lure the Enterprise with a fake message intending to destroy it as well.

The last part didn’t go as planned because they weren’t able to destroy the Enterprise so they then chose to run. The remaining question is: were they running to escape a foe who appeared stronger than they expected or were they trying to lure the Enterprise into another trap such as a squadron of Gorn ships waiting further ahead? We don’t know because the Metrons stepped in to break up the fight.

We'll never know However, the Metrons were very specific about any fighting near their system. If the Gorn had a fleet to go then they could simply start the fighting away from the Metrons.

 

[Phaser Two]

That still doesn’t explain Kirk’s unfamiliarity with the race’s name. But alas, this is not the forum to debate this.

Enh, you can read Kirk's very brief line and Shatner's delivery as Kirk had heard of them, but he just didn't know much about them.

 

[Poltargyst]

Or it could be that the producers of the new Trek shows don't care much about continuity thereby proving the new shows are not in TOS's continuity despite what the producers might claim.

 

[Warped9]

Or it could be that the producers of the new Trek shows don't care much about continuity thereby proving the new shows are not in TOS's continuity despite what the producers might claim.

Exactly so, and there is no “could be” about it—they don’t give a damn.