Spoilers The Giggle grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
You know, my first impression is: RTD probably got tired of both Moffat and Chibnall, instead of releaving the Doctor of his guilt and stress, they compounded and added to it, even when they meant to aliavate him from it (like Moffat reversed the Time War outcome, but still gave him the guilt over Clara's protracted and endless demise, or Chibnall with the Doctor's neverending agony about Gallifrey's destruction by the Master and the myriad Doctors she doesn't remembered being), that he decided to do it himself, so 15th can really be ACTUALLY free of his past.
Maybe that's it?
Maybe that's it?
Well we get plenty of classic references as well so it seems a bit broader than that.
Also who is going to The Master I wonder?
He broadened it to impart the overall sense of tiredness of the OldDoctor, but as showrunner, I imagine he did what he wanted to had seen done in the show proper in fifteen years.
Wouldn't it be nice if that was Missy there?
The laugh sounded awefully like John Simm and the hand with the ring picking up the tooth was a clear throwback to Simm's first demise.
I enjoyed it. Yes the ball game and how it was won was a bit simple but the rest was really strong.
Lovely to see Mel back, another interesting reference to the future big bad and NPH was stunning.
I thought the two doctors idea served two purposes, give the 15th Doctor a clean slate plus keeping Tennent and Tate around if they fancy doing it again.
It did feel like a slight dig at Moffat when the Toymaker went through all his companion endings.
Lovely to see Mel back, another interesting reference to the future big bad and NPH was stunning.
I thought the two doctors idea served two purposes, give the 15th Doctor a clean slate plus keeping Tennent and Tate around if they fancy doing it again.
It did feel like a slight dig at Moffat when the Toymaker went through all his companion endings.
Brilliant. 10/10. Spectacular, absolutely no notes. I literally have no complaints about this special, it completely won me over, both for itself and for the new status quo. NPH was amazing as The Toymaker, I even enjoyed his musical rampage through UNIT HQ. 10/14 and Donna were as brilliant as ever, of course, and it was great to see Kate LBS and even Mel again. The Bi-Generation should really annoy me but I loved it, maybe partially because Ncuti is instantly amazing, I don't know if any Doctor has sold themselves to me so quickly. He just feels like The Doctor, and his conversation with 14 proves that he is still The Doctor, with the same past/memories and not some weird new splinter person, which was a worry I had with the rumors that were coming out. I also really liked the tease with The Master, I wonder who took the golden tooth that The Master is apparently trapped in...
I legitimately don't think I've felt such pure magic with a Doctor Who episode since 11's era ended. I'm sure things won't be perfect, no one is and RTD has shown he can still write stinkers (Wild Blue Yonder being a good example), but I am 100% ready to see where things go from here. I haven't felt this optimistic about Doctor Who in years, and hopefully RTD can keep this momentum going and really bring Doctor Who completely back from the mediocre hole it got stuck in by the last guy in charge.
I legitimately don't think I've felt such pure magic with a Doctor Who episode since 11's era ended. I'm sure things won't be perfect, no one is and RTD has shown he can still write stinkers (Wild Blue Yonder being a good example), but I am 100% ready to see where things go from here. I haven't felt this optimistic about Doctor Who in years, and hopefully RTD can keep this momentum going and really bring Doctor Who completely back from the mediocre hole it got stuck in by the last guy in charge.
There is no way you can just leave two Doctors in one universe with two TARDIS. I think RTD is just setting it up for a future multi-doctor story, probably having Tennant re-combine or something.
I enjoyed it but I would have been happier if they just put an end to the story. I'd be especially disappointed if they left the 14th Doctor and Donna's story there.
I enjoyed it but I would have been happier if they just put an end to the story. I'd be especially disappointed if they left the 14th Doctor and Donna's story there.
RTD: "And naturally, the new Doctor is just in a shirt and underpants"
Random crewmember: "Why is that naturally?"
RTD: "It just is, shut up!"
Flashbacks to "The Writer's Tale" and RTD's plans for Russell Tovey.
Random crewmember: "Why is that naturally?"
RTD: "It just is, shut up!"
Flashbacks to "The Writer's Tale" and RTD's plans for Russell Tovey.
Well, that had the advantage of never having been tried. I feel like they could've been a bit more overt in the scene on the helipad that the Fifteenth Doctor is the Doctor and not, like, the Doctor's son. The scenes in the TARDIS were a bit more clear, but even so, those almost feel like a leftover from an earlier draft, where Fifteen just popped back in time normally, and there was a normal regeneration from Fourteen to him that happened off-screen sometime in the years to come. That line about Fifteen being fine because Fourteen took a break is what I'm thinking of, as presented, it doesn't make sense, they're the same age, they only split as people a few hours earlier and had been together in the meantime (Donna also makes a comment about Fifteen being older, rather than being Fourteen's twin).
(Personally, I think the Toymaker actually killing the Doctor mid-episode would've probably been much more effective dramatically than either of those possibilities, but it looks like my dream of a totally surprising, shock regeneration remain unfulfilled.)
I think the first half of the episode was stronger than the resolution. A couple laugh-out-loud points to call out, a blink-and-you-miss-it shout of an old lady looting a giant TV during the chaos montage at the very beginning, and Kate when she was under the influence of the Giggle accusing Bingham of malingering since she'd moved her legs, just like the internet CHUDs a couple weeks ago. I suppose that reaction was predictable enough that RTD could make a called shot a year in advance depicting them as being insanely delusional because of too much screentime, but it was still pretty impressive. Speaking of, though, the TV-makes-us-worse theming (it feels wrong to call it "subtext") was pretty on the nose, and while RTD's take on Who always had a streak of cynicism, I started to think the Doctor was under the influence of the Giggle himself when he began ranting in UNIT HQ about how the Giggle was merely exposing the pervasive depravity of the human race. A bit harsher than the old "dumb apes" and "pudding brains."
RTD does add some fuel to the idea of the Timeless Child being a trick of some kind, with the Toymaker taking credit for turning the Doctor's life story into a jigsaw puzzle, and implying that he was using or impersonating the Master. I wonder who, exactly, is in that tooth. There were theories that the Spy Master might've actually been younger than Missy, or maybe even Saxon, since he didn't seem to be aware of any of her character development, but, now, it's possible the Spy Master never actually existed at all. And, of course, we've got another red-nailed hand saving the Master. It'd be a nice change if that ended up being someone guessable, rather than a red herring like last time where it was obviously Lucy Saxon, and ended up being a new character we'd never heard of before. Anyway, as far as the TC goes, much like Blade Runner, I find it far more interesting if the Doctor fears they might not be who they think they are than that they actually aren't who they think they are.
Also, all the standard potential story hooks from having a spare Doctor still apply. One could become the Curator while the other never retires, one could become the Valeyard (they're all technically between the Doctor's twelfth and final regeneration, now!), or we could just have David Tennent playing three distinct Doctors in the 70th anniversary special, just like the joke poster.
(Personally, I think the Toymaker actually killing the Doctor mid-episode would've probably been much more effective dramatically than either of those possibilities, but it looks like my dream of a totally surprising, shock regeneration remain unfulfilled.)
I think the first half of the episode was stronger than the resolution. A couple laugh-out-loud points to call out, a blink-and-you-miss-it shout of an old lady looting a giant TV during the chaos montage at the very beginning, and Kate when she was under the influence of the Giggle accusing Bingham of malingering since she'd moved her legs, just like the internet CHUDs a couple weeks ago. I suppose that reaction was predictable enough that RTD could make a called shot a year in advance depicting them as being insanely delusional because of too much screentime, but it was still pretty impressive. Speaking of, though, the TV-makes-us-worse theming (it feels wrong to call it "subtext") was pretty on the nose, and while RTD's take on Who always had a streak of cynicism, I started to think the Doctor was under the influence of the Giggle himself when he began ranting in UNIT HQ about how the Giggle was merely exposing the pervasive depravity of the human race. A bit harsher than the old "dumb apes" and "pudding brains."
RTD does add some fuel to the idea of the Timeless Child being a trick of some kind, with the Toymaker taking credit for turning the Doctor's life story into a jigsaw puzzle, and implying that he was using or impersonating the Master. I wonder who, exactly, is in that tooth. There were theories that the Spy Master might've actually been younger than Missy, or maybe even Saxon, since he didn't seem to be aware of any of her character development, but, now, it's possible the Spy Master never actually existed at all. And, of course, we've got another red-nailed hand saving the Master. It'd be a nice change if that ended up being someone guessable, rather than a red herring like last time where it was obviously Lucy Saxon, and ended up being a new character we'd never heard of before. Anyway, as far as the TC goes, much like Blade Runner, I find it far more interesting if the Doctor fears they might not be who they think they are than that they actually aren't who they think they are.
Also, all the standard potential story hooks from having a spare Doctor still apply. One could become the Curator while the other never retires, one could become the Valeyard (they're all technically between the Doctor's twelfth and final regeneration, now!), or we could just have David Tennent playing three distinct Doctors in the 70th anniversary special, just like the joke poster.
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I feel like the bi-regeneration is a clever cheat to have it both ways. We basically get both a new Doctor who will go off to new adventures but also the Doctor can "retire". And I think bringing Tennant back was a way to give the "10th Doctor" his happy ending with Donna. Hence, the happy scene at the end with everyone around the table. And seeing as how Ncuti's Doctor is a reboot, I feel like this was almost like a "series finale" for classic Doctor Who: "Our" Doctor has had so many adventures from the 1st Doctor onward and now it is time for him to stop and enjoy life. That was basically the message Donna was giving him at the end.
The bi-regeneration also opens the door to do a multi-doctor special in the future. And we see the Master was trapped inside that gold tooth and a hand picked it up, very similar to Simm's demise. So I think the multi-doctor big special will be with the Master coming back and Ncuti's Doctor and Tennant's Doctor have to join forces to stop the Master. That would seem like a very Doctor Who story to do.
The bi-regeneration also opens the door to do a multi-doctor special in the future. And we see the Master was trapped inside that gold tooth and a hand picked it up, very similar to Simm's demise. So I think the multi-doctor big special will be with the Master coming back and Ncuti's Doctor and Tennant's Doctor have to join forces to stop the Master. That would seem like a very Doctor Who story to do.
I wonder if maybe 14 will become The Curator, and his TARDIS the museum where Gallifrey Falls No More is kept. As he continues along his regeneration cycle, he only takes the faces of his own former incarnations because he's become nostalgic in his old age.
If I had a coin every time David Tennant split into two Doctors I would have two coins, but it's weird it happened twice.
I'm not quite sure RTD fully gets the idea of non-binary and bi-. 
I do like the first-rate trolling with Shirley standing. And points for using the sledgehammer on the whole thing about being right.
I kind of wonder if the idea is that Tennant's Doctor can take on the baggage of the history of the Doctor and Ncuti's Doctor will carry on without carrying the burden.
I think the bi-regeneration could've used a more elaborate setup as the trigger seemed so bog standard, the Doctor basically just gets shot. I guess the Toymaker games are keeping things in flux.
I noticed the subtitles referred to Tennant as the Tenth Doctor, maybe this iteration can be known as the Commando Doctor now that the next Doctor has run off with his shorts.
I do like the first-rate trolling with Shirley standing. And points for using the sledgehammer on the whole thing about being right.I kind of wonder if the idea is that Tennant's Doctor can take on the baggage of the history of the Doctor and Ncuti's Doctor will carry on without carrying the burden.
I think the bi-regeneration could've used a more elaborate setup as the trigger seemed so bog standard, the Doctor basically just gets shot. I guess the Toymaker games are keeping things in flux.
I noticed the subtitles referred to Tennant as the Tenth Doctor, maybe this iteration can be known as the Commando Doctor now that the next Doctor has run off with his shorts.
So we have 10, 10A Metacrisis, 14, DoctorDonna and Jenny.
That's a whole multi doctor team up special with only Mr & Mrs Tenant and Tate...
I totally loved this from start to finish. It's definitely the end of the current era of Doctor Who from 2005, but also the start of the next. Love the idea of one Doctor being retired (or semi-retired), while another Doctor is just getting started...
Thought it was fabulous, Ncuti is just wonderful. Was grinning from ear to ear when Donna and Mel pulled them apart! Quite obviously this is designed so we can easily have more Tennant in Future. And I'm perfectly okay with that. But can't wait for the xmas special. Oh and if Ncuti wants to just stay in his underwear, I'm fine with that too 
That was fun. I had avoided spoilers for the most part but did hear rumours of the biregeneration/bigeneration. But I wasn’t expecting Fourteen to begin regenerating so soon and I thought that he was genuinely on the way out and that Ncuti alone would see out the rest of the adventure. Even when he said to pull, I thought that was just a way of Tennant getting a few extra seconds onscreen.
I guess RTD wasn’t joking about everything changing for the Doctor. I was saying in another thread last week about it being the second time he’d left a spare Tennant Doctor lying around but TenB is in another universe and there doesn’t seem to have been much interest in bringing him back. But now we have a genuine second Doctor and TARDIS in our universe. Tennant can guest star, he can do limited seasons or miniseries, one off specials etc. I’m assuming we can probably rule out the McGann miniseries, if Fourteen is always available to stand in while the incumbent is doing a year of theatre or whatever.
Unlike last week, there were plenty of nods to the show’s history to make it feel like an anniversary episode. And how prescient was the line about Shirley being able to stand up?!
Plenty of other pluses of course - NPH’s energetic, manic performance, the spice girls sequence (even if I’ve always hated that band!) and the apparent promise of the Master returning.
Roll on Christmas Day!
I guess RTD wasn’t joking about everything changing for the Doctor. I was saying in another thread last week about it being the second time he’d left a spare Tennant Doctor lying around but TenB is in another universe and there doesn’t seem to have been much interest in bringing him back. But now we have a genuine second Doctor and TARDIS in our universe. Tennant can guest star, he can do limited seasons or miniseries, one off specials etc. I’m assuming we can probably rule out the McGann miniseries, if Fourteen is always available to stand in while the incumbent is doing a year of theatre or whatever.
Unlike last week, there were plenty of nods to the show’s history to make it feel like an anniversary episode. And how prescient was the line about Shirley being able to stand up?!
Plenty of other pluses of course - NPH’s energetic, manic performance, the spice girls sequence (even if I’ve always hated that band!) and the apparent promise of the Master returning.
Roll on Christmas Day!
Me too.
I was expecting a fart joke.
There was from me.
Absolutely.
Not necessarily. There's going to be a lot of airtime to fill with an expanded year round Whoniverse.