The Genesis Effect Vs. The Borg

[nx1701g]

Recently I picked up the Myriad Universes Collection and read "The Chimes at Midnight". In the story Spock died as a child and Thelin became the Executive Officer and Science Officer of the Enterprise. The events of Star Trek 2 happened much the same way except, in this reality, the Enterprise didn't lose its XO in the Battle of the Mutara Nebula.

During the novel Kruge still attacked because he felt that Genesis was the ultimate weapon and kidnapped Saavik and David. Kirk rescued them (getting killed in the process) and the Enterprise was destroyed. In this universe the Whale Probe did significant damage to the Earth so much so that Starfleet decided to use a low powered Genesis Device to repair Earth's atmosphere. While testing the process, and Genesis was stabilized as an effective tool, the Klingons attacked citing that the Federation had build Genesis as a weapon of Mass Destruction and invaded Earth.

Long story short the Federation did, eventually, do exactly that. They used the Genesis Device to destroy Praxis and end the war against the Klingon Empire. Because of this an arms race began between the Federation, Klingons, and the Romulans.

While reading it though I had a thought. Could the Genesis Device be used as a weapon against the Borg Collective? Could it somehow cause the Cubes, Spheres, Etc to terraform and destroy themselves?

 

[Kaziarl]

Recently I picked up the Myriad Universes Collection and read "The Chimes at Midnight". In the story Spock died as a child and Thelin became the Executive Officer and Science Officer of the Enterprise. The events of Star Trek 2 happened much the same way except, in this reality, the Enterprise didn't lose its XO in the Battle of the Mutara Nebula.

During the novel Kruge still attacked because he felt that Genesis was the ultimate weapon and kidnapped Saavik and David. Kirk rescued them (getting killed in the process) and the Enterprise was destroyed. In this universe the Whale Probe did significant damage to the Earth so much so that Starfleet decided to use a low powered Genesis Device to repair Earth's atmosphere. While testing the process, and Genesis was stabilized as an effective tool, the Klingons attacked citing that the Federation had build Genesis as a weapon of Mass Destruction and invaded Earth.

Long story short the Federation did, eventually, do exactly that. They used the Genesis Device to destroy Praxis and end the war against the Klingon Empire. Because of this an arms race began between the Federation, Klingons, and the Romulans.

While reading it though I had a thought. Could the Genesis Device be used as a weapon against the Borg Collective? Could it somehow cause the Cubes, Spheres, Etc to terraform and destroy themselves?

well... yeah. Genesis changes all matter at the sub-atomic level. A better question, and I get the feeling it's the one you meant to ask, is could they adapt? My honest guess is no, I think the process happens to fast for them to study and adapt to it.

 

[Deks]

But then again, they could adapt if you only wipe out a larger concentration of Borg.
You'd have to drag all of them in the same spot and initiate the genesis device ... otherwise the remaining Borg (wherever they are) will simply receive telemetry on what happened and will try to analyze/adapt.

Besides, Borg technology is more advanced than the Federations.

 

[Kaziarl]

I'm not sure the borg would have time to send the telemetry and adapt. As soon as the genesis energy wave touches matter, it instantly starts to change it. Even on the level of nanoprobes, that doesn't seem like there's enough time for one nanoprobe to say to it's neighbor "Hey, somethings happening to me. Take this info and figure out what to do."

 

[SicOne]

It would have been interesting to see what would have happened had someone detonated a Genesis Device in the Azure Nebula while all of the Borg were clustered therein, around the Caeliar planet...

 

[Captain Robert April]

Turned all the cubes into gigantic Chia pets?

 

[Deks]

I'm not sure the borg would have time to send the telemetry and adapt. As soon as the genesis energy wave touches matter, it instantly starts to change it. Even on the level of nanoprobes, that doesn't seem like there's enough time for one nanoprobe to say to it's neighbor "Hey, somethings happening to me. Take this info and figure out what to do."

But if you take into consideration that all of Borg are connected on a constant basis and information is continuously shared ... the others would receive telemetry until the Borg affected by the genesis device would not be able to send the data.

It would just be a matter of time really ... as long as you have remaining Borg somewhere.

As i previously stated, the Borg are much more advanced compared to the Feds.
It is unlikely they haven't discovered/assimilated a race that hasn't come up with the Genesis type device.

Plus, the Borg were able to monitor Voyager from large distances in real time.
This was before destruction of the TW network, but they would still be able to send individual TW signals in terms of communications most likely even without the hubs.

So they could observe the genesis effect from half a galaxy away, or just wait until the next use of the device begins.

At the same time ... the Feds missed out opportunities for great technological leaps by abandoning devices such as Genesis.
You would think that research would have been done from those 'failures' or 'abandoned projects' and used in other technologies ... something any sensible individual/organization would do ... of course this was not portrayed on-screen to a large extent.

 

[Omega_Glory]

Just because the Borg contact each other when hit with a weapon, does not mean they can instantly adapt their shields to any destructive force, no matter how powerful it is. That is ludicrous.

Any borg crew, installations, or ships that come in contact with the wave would cease to exist. Period. There's no adapting to something on this scale.

 

[Plecostomus]

The Borg work best as a force of nature that cannot be stopped. That's how I've handled them in the RPG I run. Eventually they will adapt to anything. Best policy is to look irrelevant and hope they aren't running low on drones. This tactic also works with Addeco and Kelly Service as well.

You might be able to Genesis a few dozen cubes/spheres but eventually they will have quantum destruction devices and shielding that can block it. That'd get unpleasant quick!


Now as to abandoned technology, I imagine the quantum manipulation technology continued to evolve but not on such an epic scale. "Tea, Earl Grey, Hot." anyone?

 

[Good]

Just because the Borg contact each other when hit with a weapon, does not mean they can instantly adapt their shields to any destructive force, no matter how powerful it is. That is ludicrous.

Any borg crew, installations, or ships that come in contact with the wave would cease to exist. Period. There's no adapting to something on this scale.

Why not? It's just another energy-based weapon. And the various bits of borg, from nano to drone to cube, communicate via subspace, which is, by definition, faster than light. The genesis effect is visibly slower than light, therefore they could communicate about it.

 

[Omega_Glory]

The shield generators would have an upper limit on what they can handle. The Borg cube in First Contact had lost it's shields by the time it got to earth (or even before that). They definitely had time to adapt, but the overall weapons energy was too much for the generator. The energy that the fleet had applied to that cube is considerably lower than what the genesis device would inflict on a planet to destroy and renew it. So, the genesis device would overwhelm the shields of a borg ship, no matter how they adapted.

 

[Deks]

Which begs the question as to why the fleet at Wolf 359 did not overload the Borg's shields to begin with?
The Borg were adapting (albeit slower) in FC ... that gave SF window of opportunity to inflict damage on the cube.

Once a ship has adapted, it can likely absorb vast amounts of energy and release it via subspace or any other means ... if not even use it to power it's own systems.
Point is, Borg are more advanced than the Feds.

 

[Omega_Glory]

They are more advanced than the Feds but hardly invincible as some fans seem to think. They can't just adapt to anything and everything...otherwise Voyager would have been destroyed long before ever returning to Earth.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

You've got that backwards, partner.

If the Borg can demolish fleets and dismantle outposts all along heavily-guarded borders with ease, then a pithy little destroyer-sized ship with no Starfleet backup should have been metallic vapour floating through the void.

NOTHING would survive transit through Borg space. They've conquered thousands of species. Regardless of how large the technolgy gap is, their infrastructure and fleet size is by any measure of common sense, unimaginably huge. Voyager was fortunate 8472 was pwning the Borg, and that Kes evolved and shot them out of the bulk of Borg territory... otherwise they'd be either standing in alcoves vegging out with the rest of the collective, or spending their time as the aforementioned cloud of vapour.

 

[Captain Robert April]

By the same token, one little destroyer-sized ship might not have been worth messing with. Like Hugh said, the Borg assimilate planets, not individuals. Stragglers aren't their concern.

 

[Omega_Glory]

You've got that backwards, partner.

If the Borg can demolish fleets and dismantle outposts all along heavily-guarded borders with ease, then a pithy little destroyer-sized ship with no Starfleet backup should have been metallic vapour floating through the void.

NOTHING would survive transit through Borg space. They've conquered thousands of species. Regardless of how large the technolgy gap is, their infrastructure and fleet size is by any measure of common sense, unimaginably huge. Voyager was fortunate 8472 was pwning the Borg, and that Kes evolved and shot them out of the bulk of Borg territory... otherwise they'd be either standing in alcoves vegging out with the rest of the collective, or spending their time as the aforementioned cloud of vapour.

I might not have the details of Voyager correct as I didn't find it very interesting, but the fact still remains that the Borg cannot adapt to any destructive force no matter how powerful.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Alright, fine. We use the Genesis Device on the Borg.

NOW we're a threat. Before, we were just a curiousity, but now that we have a WMD the Borg can't adapt to... they'll simply opt to crush the Federation under the heel of their boot. Even if Starfleet equipped every single ship with the Genesis torpedo, the Borg have more resources to draw from, and would essentially be able to zerg rush Starfleet and the Federation into oblivion.

Its not the technology that needs to be levelled if the Federation wants to win major confrontations with the Borg. The more massive gap is that of numbers. So far, the Borg have sent only individual ships, which puts the odds in the Federation's favor. But - if they start flinging ubertech weapons at the Borg - the shit's gonna hit the warp drive.

The Borg don't seem terribly interested in assimilating the Federation as a whole or crushing it presently. I see no reason to change that with foolish displays of firepower.

 

[Kaziarl]

Alright, fine. We use the Genesis Device on the Borg.

NOW we're a threat. Before, we were just a curiousity, but now that we have a WMD the Borg can't adapt to... they'll simply opt to crush the Federation under the heel of their boot. Even if Starfleet equipped every single ship with the Genesis torpedo, the Borg have more resources to draw from, and would essentially be able to zerg rush Starfleet and the Federation into oblivion.

Its not the technology that needs to be levelled if the Federation wants to win major confrontations with the Borg. The more massive gap is that of numbers. So far, the Borg have sent only individual ships, which puts the odds in the Federation's favor. But - if they start flinging ubertech weapons at the Borg - the shit's gonna hit the warp drive.

The Borg don't seem terribly interested in assimilating the Federation as a whole or crushing it presently. I see no reason to change that with foolish displays of firepower.

Considering treks tradition on basing adversaries on real world issues, makes me wonder if the borg are to the chinese what the TOS klingons were to the russians.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

The Romulans were the Chinese, methinks. (During TOS, of course.)

 

[Good]

So, the genesis device would overwhelm the shields of a borg ship, no matter how they adapted.

Sorry, I'm just not buying that.

Why do we suddenly think the Genesis wave is the most powerful energy weapon ever invented? In fact, I think there is ample evidence that it was a very specific, very limited form of matter rearrangement that might be fairly easy to defend against.
If Genesis were nothing but a massive, unstoppable explosion, we would see federation ships in the TNG era armed with planet-killing Genesis torpedoes. But we don't see that. I think it's plausible that the energy signature of the Genesis wave is not all-powerful, but very specific, meaning that shields could be easily tuned to defeat it if you know it's coming. And TWOK proves that Genesis produces an easily detectable, very unique energy signature. This can be detected at least minutes before it detonates, even by a crippled starship.
Put those things together, and we can explain both why we never really hear about Genesis again, and why it would not be very effective long-term, against that Borg.