The General Concensus On Humans

[Mojochi]

As of the time of most Star Trek, humans have really only been out on the interstellar stage for a few hundred years, a mere blip in most of its beings' histories, including humans themselves. Yet, they've managed to make themselves a focal point for all interstellar geopolitics in that time & they have proliferated insanely

So what's the general concensus? Do most species regret them showing up or not? I mean, the show tells it from a point of view that us being there is on the whole a good thing, but would they really think that? Does anyone even really like us that much?

 

[Lord Garth]

I don't know. We'd need a prequel series, set before Earth came into the picture, to show how everything was in the Interstellar Community. Then we can see just how much Earth either helped or messed things up.

One of the things I liked about Better Call Saul was showing how the Criminal Underworld was before Heisenberg showed up in Breaking Bad and wrecked everything. To quote Mike Ehrmantraut, "We had a good thing going! We had Fring! If you'd have known your place and done your job, you would've been fine. But, no! You and your ego. You had to blow it up!"

The Romulans would be sitting pretty right about now. The Klingons wouldn't have a Federation to united against and they'd have killed each other. The ongoing war between the Vulcans and Andorians would've meant the two sides would've cancelled each other out. No Federation, means no Starfleet discovering the Wormhole and no Dominion coming through. Cardassia surives intact.

So we end up with a Romulan/Cardassian Alliance in the Alpha Quadrant with no one to seriously challenge them. The Borg are doing their thing in the Delta Quadrant. And the Dominion are still doing their thing in the Gamma Quadrant.

Before someone says something about it: The Romulans still had enough time to evacuate Romulus no matter what, so as bad as the destruction of Romulus was, they were still able to weather it.

 

[Finn]

Mike was full of shit when he said that to Walt. Things definitely was not fine...different but not fine. Things was quite dicey at times.

Anyway yeah it'd be cool to see a story about the region from the badlands to what would be the RMZ a century before Cochrane's flight. A flashback episode or something.

 

[Citiprime]

One of the things I liked about Better Call Saul was showing how the Criminal Underworld was before Heisenberg showed up in Breaking Bad and wrecked everything. To quote Mike Ehrmantraut, "We had a good thing going! We had Fring! If you'd have known your place and done your job, you would've been fine. But, no! You and your ego. You had to blow it up!"

I always thought Mike was so selfish in saying that (i.e., he only saw it from his perspective, and what it meant to leaving money for his granddaughter), and a lot of fans buy into Mike's perspective and lionize Mike.

However, if Walt hadn't rebelled against Gus, Jesse would have been killed. As bad as Walt got, up until the very end he had a soft spot for Jesse and tried to protect him.

 

[Mojochi]

However, if Walt hadn't rebelled against Gus, Jesse would have been killed. As bad as Walt got, up until the very end he had a soft spot for Jesse and tried to protect him.

LOL he had a guilt complex about Jesse. Everything bad that happened to that kid was all on Walt, like villainously so, & he knows it, & keeping Jesse alive was a self-interest as well, because Walt at that time had like no one in his corner

I admit though, Mike's claim is oversimplistic "Done your job"???? No, Walt coming onto the scene altogether shifted the balance, because he was a prodigy meth cook. That product changed everything, & Walt getting caught up in it exacerbated it, but nevertheless, Mike's world was going to be upended no matter what. Hell, it's not like everything was sunshine & roses before Walt. Gus' power grab was nasty.

Anyway...

I don't know. We'd need a prequel series, set before Earth came into the picture, to show how everything was in the Interstellar Community. Then we can see just how much Earth either helped or messed things up.

You make a lot of good points & observations. Still, people generally never think about the "might've been" just the "It is what it is". Mostly I just wonder about how humanity is generally thought of out there. They're just everywhere & all mixed up in everything. I wouldn't be surprised if even some of their allies might wish they'd never come along. The Quark/Garak root beer chat, you know? I mean yeah, we're glad it isn't all Romulan Empire, but good grief with these guys lol

 

[1001001]

Mostly Harmless

 

[Shawnster]

Which Pocket Books was it, Ishmael? There was a novel that depicted Vulcans as the big boys on the block and humans as Johnny Come Latelys. Spock was in command of the cruiser Shi'Kar and Kirk was a Lt.

The way T'Pol corrected Hoshi on how to pronounce Romulan leads me to think that some Vulcans, maybe just High Command, knew about their shared history. That's a wild card. How would this knowledge affect the Andorian conflict?

No Humans means no Pike on Talos IV. Do they find different breeding stock?

No humans, no Federation? No Klingon war. No Earth Romulan war. Do the resources that went into fighting humans get used to fight each other? No temporary alliance and exchange of D7s for cloaking tech?

No humans to stop Future Guy from fooling the Klingons into thinking they were heading for civil war. So they head for civil war and the Suliban wreck havoc. Does this weaken the Klingons too much to resist the Romulans?

Cardassians run rough shod over their weaker neighbors with no Federation to have a border war with.

The Bajoran wormhole may have still been discovered eventually, but by whom?

Could anyone else defeat the Borg? They would still come, eventually.

Nomad, the Planet Killer, the Space Amoeba would still need dealt with by others. The Whale Probe might be a non-starter and V'ger definitely never exists.

The Kazon eventually eat the Ocampas' lunch.

The Delphic Expanse continues to hide the Xindi. Do they get manipulated into attacking someone else?

 

[Avro Arrow]

Which Pocket Books was it, Ishmael? There was a novel that depicted Vulcans as the big boys on the block and humans as Johnny Come Latelys. Spock was in command of the cruiser Shi'Kar and Kirk was a Lt.

Killing Time, by Della Van Hise.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Agent K said it best:

Human thought is so primitive it's looked upon as an infectious disease in some of the better galaxies.

Killing Time, by Della Van Hise.

And that's true of both the original and revised editions (as I recall, I think we determined that I have the original, and the K/S in it is actually rather tame compared with what I understand to be the norm in K/S 'zines).

 

[Nerys Myk]

A main course.

 

[Shawnster]

Killing Time, by Della Van Hise.

Thanks! It's been decades. And I must have had the revised edition.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

A main course.

And of course, the punchline of that episode works equally well as a reaction to a certain extremely tasteless Las Vegas Convention and Visitors' Bureau commercial.

 

[Lord Garth]

I think the Klingons hated the Federation in the 22nd and 23rd Centuries, then started change their tune after the Federation helped them in the years after TUC. Some Klingons probably hate going "soft" after becoming allies with the Federation, but other Klingons probably see partnering with the Federation as partnering with someone who fought side-by-side with them in the Dominion War. Before, they hadn't been allies in a prolonged war, but now they have been. So that probably changed relations with the Klingons for the better after DS9.

I think the Romulans hated the Federation and still hate the Federation (as of the early-25th Century). I think all the Romulans see is what the Federation has stopped them from being able to do and the things it made them feel like they had to do. Do you think the Romulans really wanted to form alliance with the Klingons in 2268? Hell no! They did it because they wanted to even the odds against a mutual enemy: the Federation. And then that alliance completely fell apart in the following decades. Do you think the Romulans like that their distant cousins, the Vulcans, are part of the Federation? No! Do you think they liked the warming of relations between the Federation and Klingons in the 24th Century? No! And guaranteed they thought they were sitting pretty when the Federation and Klingons were fighting in a war against the Dominion that they were losing. They loved that. If they'd ever found out what really happened in "In the Pale Moonlight", the Federation would be fucked.

I think the Changelings don't appreciate Section 31 infecting them with a virus that would've killed them all, and Starfleet secretly being complicit. I think the Dominion doesn't think much of the Federation at all. They would prefer the Federation not exist at all, but will respect that they have a treaty with them.

 

[valkyrie013]

They are the youngest out there, and are the most energetic, outgoing.. Give it a few hundred years they'll mellow out.

 

[Nyotarules]

Myriad universe short story, A Less Perfect union, depicts an Instellar Coalition without Earth

 

[Oddish]

Maybe our secret as a species is that we think big.

Way back when the US was just a cluster of little ex-colonies down one side of North America, President Monroe effectively declared that half the planet belonged to us. Of course, Europe laughed their butts off and went right on colonizing... but the point is we thought big, and eventually we got big.