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The General Anime Thread!

in some cases they just didn't have a translation, production just gets handed a bunch of footage they have to do *something* with. in others they... chose things that were not really aimed at children and cut out things like sex or bloody violence.. or cigars... or guns...
 
There's something I've been wondering about, and this seems like a good place to ask.
In the 1980s when they were bring over anime like Macross and Beast King Go-Lion to the US why did they turn them into totally different shows like Robotech and Voltron, instead of just doing straight translations like we get with most anime now? I'd apply the same question to Tokusatu shows like Super Sentai/Power Rangers, Big Battle Beetleborgs/Metal Hero, and VR Troopers/more Metal Hero series.
In both situations wouldn't it have been easier and cheaper for everyone if they just translated them, and dubbed and/or added subtitles to them? Rather coming up with a new story and everything.

With Robotech, it was because they needed to combine three shorter series to get over the 65-episode run you needed for weekday strip syndication (it was 85 episodes in all), so they had to invent an overarching narrative combining the three separate shows into a single generational saga.

As for Voltron, I think it was a fairly straight dub of the original, aside from toning down the violence and such to suit American kidvid standards. It wasn't as radical a change as, say, the Earth-based Gatchaman being turned into the space-based Battle of the Planets with new framing animation, which was done to capitalize on Star Wars.

With the tokusatsu adaptations, the reason is that the producers wanted to use American casts rather than dubbing the voices of Japanese casts, and to have the freedom to tell new stories that were more relatable for American audiences and that conformed to America's much stricter censorship on kids' TV. They wanted to save money by reusing existing FX footage and costumes, but they didn't want to do straight adaptations, although some of the later Power Rangers seasons were quite faithful to their originals (e.g. Time Force, Wild Force, much of S.P.D., the villains' storyline in Jungle Fury, and Samurai/Super Samurai, although Samurai somehow managed to do a slavish adaptation of one of the very best Sentai series and turn it into the very worst Power Rangers series).

Before Power Rangers, USA Network did a comedy dub of a handful of episodes of the Sentai series Dynaman, but it didn't go over well. Maybe that was a factor in why Saban chose a different route.

In addition to the Saban shows, there were some other knockoffs like Superhuman Samurai Syber Squad, an adaptation of Tsuburaya's Gridman, although it was basically just a high-school sitcom with action scenes tacked on. I thought it was terrible, but when I finally saw Gridman, it turned out to be almost as terrible, and not as different from SSSS as I expected. It's had a few anime sequels, SSSS.Gridman, SSSS.Dynazenon, and the movie Gridman Universe, which are much better -- and SSSS.Gridman is a strange approach to a sequel, because its story arc depends on the gradual revelation of mysteries that are immediately obvious to anyone acquainted with the original show, so it would actually be more enjoyable if you've never seen the show it's homaging.

Then in 2008-9, there was Kamen Rider Dragon Knight, which took footage and costumes from Kamen Rider Ryuki and created a whole new story around them. Unlike Saban's much-reviled Masked Rider, Dragon Knight was actually pretty good (after an uneven, slow, and overly sitcommy beginning) and felt like a real Kamen Rider series (although one of the later ones without the death tolls of the early-2000s series).
 
There's something I've been wondering about, and this seems like a good place to ask.
In the 1980s when they were bring over anime like Macross and Beast King Go-Lion to the US why did they turn them into totally different shows like Robotech and Voltron, instead of just doing straight translations like we get with most anime now? I'd apply the same question to Tokusatu shows like Super Sentai/Power Rangers, Big Battle Beetleborgs/Metal Hero, and VR Troopers/more Metal Hero series.
In both situations wouldn't it have been easier and cheaper for everyone if they just translated them, and dubbed and/or added subtitles to them? Rather coming up with a new story and everything.
For Robotech/Macross it was because for striped afternoon syndication you had to have at least 65 episodes to be marketable in the U.S. so Carl Macek/Harmony Gold franfenstiened 'Robotech across the 3 series (and to this day, I don't recall if Super Dimension Sothern Cross was actually a related sequel to SDF Macross in any real way in Japan, but Genesis Pit Mospeda (the last part of Robotech was just because it was cheap to license had the right number of episodes to make 65 with ebverything else; and as Earth had been invaded and Humans had to migfrate to Mars - it had a Post Apocalptic Earth look that matched with the end state of Earth from Macross.

It's also why Voltron had two series/sets of characters and different Robot designs - needed to get to 65 episodes.

Edit: Ninja'd ;)
 
in some cases they just didn't have a translation, production just gets handed a bunch of footage they have to do *something* with. in others they... chose things that were not really aimed at children and cut out things like sex or bloody violence.. or cigars... or guns...
That seems weird to me, I would think it would be up to the people releasing the America version to bring in the people to translate it for them.
With Robotech, it was because they needed to combine three shorter series to get over the 65-episode run you needed for weekday strip syndication (it was 85 episodes in all), so they had to invent an overarching narrative combining the three separate shows into a single generational saga.
Oh, I knew there were three seasons of Robotech, but I had assumed it was taken from three seasons of the same show or related shows like Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z or Narruto and Barruto.
As for Voltron, I think it was a fairly straight dub of the original, aside from toning down the violence and such to suit American kidvid standards. It wasn't as radical a change as, say, the Earth-based Gatchaman being turned into the space-based Battle of the Planets with new framing animation, which was done to capitalize on Star Wars.
Oh, I didn't realize it stuck that close to the original shows.
With the tokusatsu adaptations, the reason is that the producers wanted to use American casts rather than dubbing the voices of Japanese casts, and to have the freedom to tell new stories that were more relatable for American audiences and that conformed to America's much stricter censorship on kids' TV. They wanted to save money by reusing existing FX footage and costumes, but they didn't want to do straight adaptations, although some of the later Power Rangers seasons were quite faithful to their originals (e.g. Time Force, Wild Force, much of S.P.D., the villains' storyline in Jungle Fury, and Samurai/Super Samurai, although Samurai somehow managed to do a slavish adaptation of one of the very best Sentai series and turn it into the very worst Power Rangers series).
I was wondering if it might have been something like that.
Before Power Rangers, USA Network did a comedy dub of a handful of episodes of the Sentai series Dynaman, but it didn't go over well. Maybe that was a factor in why Saban chose a different route.

In addition to the Saban shows, there were some other knockoffs like Superhuman Samurai Syber Squad, an adaptation of Tsuburaya's Gridman, although it was basically just a high-school sitcom with action scenes tacked on. I thought it was terrible, but when I finally saw Gridman, it turned out to be almost as terrible, and not as different from SSSS as I expected. It's had a few anime sequels, SSSS.Gridman, SSSS.Dynazenon, and the movie Gridman Universe, which are much better -- and SSSS.Gridman is a strange approach to a sequel, because its story arc depends on the gradual revelation of mysteries that are immediately obvious to anyone acquainted with the original show, so it would actually be more enjoyable if you've never seen the show it's homaging.

Then in 2008-9, there was Kamen Rider Dragon Knight, which took footage and costumes from Kamen Rider Ryuki and created a whole new story around them. Unlike Saban's much-reviled Masked Rider, Dragon Knight was actually pretty good (after an uneven, slow, and overly sitcommy beginning) and felt like a real Kamen Rider series (although one of the later ones without the death tolls of the early-2000s series).
Never heard of any of those before.
 
Even though Macross and Mospeada are now both available for Streaming in the US through Crunchyroll, I honestly would pick (re)watching Robotech over watching either of them.
 
Oh, I knew there were three seasons of Robotech, but I had assumed it was taken from three seasons of the same show or related shows like Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z or Narruto and Barruto.

Actually Robotech was all one season, 5 days a week for 17 weeks straight through from March to June 1985, but divided into three "generations" corresponding to the three different series it adapted. IMDb lists the three parts as "seasons," but you can tell from the airdates that it was all one continuous run.

The first two generations are based on the first and third series (Super Dimension Fortress Macross and Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross) in the so-called "Super Dimension Trilogy," three anime series with separate stories and characters using similar concepts, like different seasons of Kamen Rider or Ultraman or Pretty Cure, say. Rights issues kept them from using the second one (Orguss), so the third Robotech subseries was based on a separate show from the same production company (Genesis Climber Mospeada). There was also Robotech: The Movie, which combined material from Southern Cross and an unrelated video series called Megazone 23.

Never heard of any of those before.

The SSSS anime series are on Crunchyroll (though the crossover movie isn't). Kamen Rider Dragon Knight is unfortunately much harder to find these days.
 
There's something I've been wondering about, and this seems like a good place to ask.
In the 1980s when they were bring over anime like Macross and Beast King Go-Lion to the US why did they turn them into totally different shows like Robotech and Voltron, instead of just doing straight translations like we get with most anime now? I'd apply the same question to Tokusatu shows like Super Sentai/Power Rangers, Big Battle Beetleborgs/Metal Hero, and VR Troopers/more Metal Hero series.
In both situations wouldn't it have been easier and cheaper for everyone if they just translated them, and dubbed and/or added subtitles to them? Rather coming up with a new story and everything.
The standard answers are:

a) too much violence and too many deaths. In the American market, these were simply impossible elements in a children's product.

b) too few episodes: different products had to be combined to make it seem like a single franchise (see the three series that made up Robotech).
 
Ok, as a Kid I watched both GoLion and Voltron (I've no idea why but in Italy we had both) and they were quite different. For example the origin of the robot was completely different, in Voltron the Earth wasn't destroyed and the tone was completely different. In GoLion people, were, talked like adults. In Voltron they talked in the that bizarre and strange way people talk in American cartoons of that period.
 
Ok, as a Kid I watched both GoLion and Voltron (I've no idea why but in Italy we had both) and they were quite different. For example the origin of the robot was completely different, in Voltron the Earth wasn't destroyed and the tone was completely different. In GoLion people, were, talked like adults. In Voltron they talked in the that bizarre and strange way people talk in American cartoons of that period.


Your link says that only the first episode was radically different, "unlike nearly every other episode." So the series overall was a pretty straight adaptation, but they had to change the origin story more radically to make it less apocalyptic.


On the live-action front, I should point out that the practice of radically altering Japanese media and combining it with newly shot local footage is not unique to the United States. For instance:

And of course, several early kaiju films were recut with new footage of English-speaking actors to create new or modified stories, such as Godzilla, King of the Monsters!, King Kong vs. Godzilla, and Varan the Destroyer (which is a massively different story from the original Daikaiju Baran). So productions like Power Rangers and VR Troopers were just reviving a practice that had been around since the '50s.
 
Yeah, I actually just remembered the two different versions of Godzilla.
 
and also I believe Rodan (1956).

Apparently so, yes.

The English version overseen by the King Brothers is a complete overhaul with innumerable editorial and creative differences. It runs 10 minutes shorter than its Japanese counterpart. The story is now presented as an account told from the perspective of its protagonist, Shigeru, much in the same vein as the role of the character Steve Martin in the earlier Americanized Toho film, Godzilla, King of the Monsters!. Additions include unused Toho special effects footage and a prologue made up of American nuclear test footage to transparently link the monsters' emergence with the Atomic Age.

They even changed the name of the kaiju, from Radon (short for "pteranodon") to Rodan. Some sources claim it was because of the element radon, but others say it was to avoid confusion with a product of that name, a laundry soap, I think.

The English dub of Rodan was also George Takei's film debut.
 
And Gamera (1965) and also I believe Rodan (1956).

Apparently so, yes.



They even changed the name of the kaiju, from Radon (short for "pteranodon") to Rodan. Some sources claim it was because of the element radon, but others say it was to avoid confusion with a product of that name, a laundry soap, I think.

The English dub of Rodan was also George Takei's film debut.
Oh, I didn't know they did it for those too, I thought it was just Godzilla.
And just remembered they also did a version of the first Heisei Godzilla with Raymond Burr back as his character from the Americanized first movie as a tribute to it.
 
And just remembered they also did a version of the first Heisei Godzilla with Raymond Burr back as his character from the Americanized first movie as a tribute to it.

Yes, but less extensively than in the original. It adds a few scenes on a cheap set of Burr's "Mr. Martin" (they didn't call him Steve Martin this time because people would've laughed) advising some Pentagon officers about stuff they're just hearing about from half a world away. The American version also went for a lighter tone, deleted some of the character relationship material, and changed the dialogue so that the Soviet nuclear control ship captain was a villain who intentionally launched a nuclear missile instead of a hero who sacrificed his life trying to prevent its launch (as well as making the missile's stated yield 100 times bigger).
 
Yes, but less extensively than in the original. It adds a few scenes on a cheap set of Burr's "Mr. Martin" (they didn't call him Steve Martin this time because people would've laughed) advising some Pentagon officers about stuff they're just hearing about from half a world away. The American version also went for a lighter tone, deleted some of the character relationship material, and changed the dialogue so that the Soviet nuclear control ship captain was a villain who intentionally launched a nuclear missile instead of a hero who sacrificed his life trying to prevent its launch (as well as making the missile's stated yield 100 times bigger).
OK. I've only ever seen the Japanese version, which I watched for the first time just a few months ago.
 
Today, YouTube showed me a trailer for yet another harem anime. A genre I hate with all my heart.

A boy with no qualities or social skills suddenly finds himself surrounded by beautiful girls who want him at all costs. I understand that's the dream of many teenagers, but as an adult, it irritates me beyond belief.

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Today, YouTube showed me a trailer for yet another harem anime. A genre I hate with all my heart.

A boy with no qualities or social skills suddenly finds himself surrounded by beautiful girls who want him at all costs. I understand that's the dream of many teenagers, but as an adult, it irritates me beyond belief.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
Personally, I like the original manga of Gals Can't Be Kind to Otaku. It's got well-written characters that don't feel like the majority of the harem slop and avoid a lot of the terrible characterization of the main characters the genre is plagued with. The series actually makes the friendships of the characters make sense and it's quite a while before romance even enters into the situation.
 
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