The Future Of Federation Tech

[C.E. Evans]

This isn't so much a discussion about the future of Federation technology as it is about the future of Starfleet shipbuilding policy.

Personally, I think Starfleet will always have a mix of large multipurpose vessels and smaller specialized ships. The ratio will probably vary as conditions warrant, but Starfleet will probably need both kinds of ships to carry out its responsibilities to an ever growing Federation, IMO. I'm more inclined to think that the bulk of Starfleet in the future will consist of smaller vessels, but there will still be "big daddys" in the fleet too. But it's possible (I guess) that there might not be any ships larger than the Galaxy- and Sovereign-classes if Starfleet continues what appears to be a current trend of building smaller, more compact starships...

 

[Lorna]

This isn't so much a discussion about the future of Federation technology as it is about the future of Starfleet shipbuilding policy.

It is about future tech because we're talking about using segments.

Personally, I think Starfleet will always have a mix of large multipurpose vessels and smaller specialized ships. The ratio will probably vary as conditions warrant, but Starfleet will probably need both kinds of ships to carry out its responsibilities to an ever growing Federation, IMO. I'm more inclined to think that the bulk of Starfleet in the future will consist of smaller vessels, but there will still be "big daddys" in the fleet too. But it's possible (I guess) that there might not be any ships larger than the Galaxy- and Sovereign-classes if Starfleet continues what appears to be a current trend of building smaller, more compact starships...

But do you agree or disagree that the Federation could use the same design for all their ships but simply build different sizes for the roles required?

An Akira and an Intrepid could be the exact same design but just different in size. The segments would be whichever ones are required for the ships mission.

 

[C.E. Evans]

This isn't so much a discussion about the future of Federation technology as it is about the future of Starfleet shipbuilding policy.

It is about future tech because we're talking about using segments.

Actually, it's just about putting what is normally on the inside of ships on the outside. Basically, it's just another multipurpose vessel, except with a new "multi-vecky gimmicky thingy".

Personally, I think Starfleet will always have a mix of large multipurpose vessels and smaller specialized ships. The ratio will probably vary as conditions warrant, but Starfleet will probably need both kinds of ships to carry out its responsibilities to an ever growing Federation, IMO. I'm more inclined to think that the bulk of Starfleet in the future will consist of smaller vessels, but there will still be "big daddys" in the fleet too. But it's possible (I guess) that there might not be any ships larger than the Galaxy- and Sovereign-classes if Starfleet continues what appears to be a current trend of building smaller, more compact starships...

But do you agree or disagree that the Federation could use the same design for all their ships but simply build different sizes for the roles required?

I think that's something the Klingon Navy does, but I don't see the Federation Starfleet ever going that route. I think it's a matter of Starfleet policy to have many ship designs as it may be Klingon policy to have a limited number of ship designs.

 

[Unicron]

^^ It's not that simplistic. Most modern navy ships have the same basic characteristics in terms of shapes and technology, but their equipment is always mission specific. You can't turn a destroyer into a more powerful cruiser or carrier merely by scaling it up and adding more stuff to the hull. The destroyer is suited for a specific role and the cruiser or carrier are intended for other specific roles. The only reason we wound up with separate classes for the Klingon model was because of glaring scale issues when it was used with the Galaxy model in TNG, and because models (physical or CGI) are expensive to create, the Klingons and most other races got stuck with only a handful of designs ever being used.

I think a more likely scenario, and one that occurs frequently in fan works, is that instead of having a separate class for each role you have a number of similar variants of a single class, i.e. you have frigates that have been modified from the Miranda design and include some of the basic class elements, but also have mission-specific tech which the Miranda doesn't have. This is the case with a lot of navy ships today, where they make a destroyer class and then modify some aspects of it for the next destroyer class. This is cheaper than trying to build every design from scratch and allows for the correction of flaws and limitations in the earlier design.

Battletech does a similar thing in their universe, with many of the vehicle designs having been around decades or even centuries. There's usually a number of different variations on some designs, but it's still the same basic design.

 

[C.E. Evans]

^^^
I assume you're responding to Lorna rather than me.

 

[Unicron]

Yes, I was.

 

[Uncle Sol]

Thing is though, the ships wont need to keep changing modules all the time. If a ship is fitted with a science module that ship will spend the rest of it's days on those type of missions, only when the ships mission is changed will the module need changing.

What happens when the ship's mission changes in an instant?

To use your second example in your first post.

The 2nd ship is being sent to the Gorn border due to recent hostilities so this particular ship is connected to a battle module which contains extra weapons arrays, extra torpedo launchers, extra ordinance and a more powerful shield generator.

If the Gorn were to launch a surprise attack on a Federation border colony, how would the battleship variant handle this new crisis? As far as I see, they have 3 options.

Stay where they are protecting the border​

Assist the colonists regardless of their lack of facilities to do so​

Wait for either a ship that is equipped with the right module, or wait for Starfleet to send them one​

If instead Starfleet had a Galaxy Class ship on the boarder, it could handle many different roles: protecting the boarder, assisting the colonists, using their more powerful sensors to detected the Gorn before they strike.

You call it a 'Multiclass Ship' and at the same time say the ships would not be changing their modules often and only being assigned missions they are equipped to do. So really once it is equipped with a tactical module it is a Battleship nothing more.

Unless the ships are able to switch often and quickly they don't sound very 'Multiclass' or multipurpose to me.

 

[Unicron]

There's also the issue of using one basic design for everything, versus a design geared to meet a specific threat; once the enemy becomes familiar with your hull's capabilities across several different mission variants, it's easier for them to develop specific countermeasures to you. Whereas having a variety of designs gives you much greater flexibility for however construction resources are managed.

There is a potential precedent for making upscaled/downscaled versions of a class in wartime, as happened during WWII. Convoys were often protected by escort destroyers, which were basically smaller versions of true destroyers. They didn't have the armor or firepower that the destroyers had, but they were perfectly suited to protect the convoy ships so that the bigger destroyers could be reassigned to support capital ships, and their heavier arsenals would be more useful there. Escort carriers served the same purpose, acting as a stopgap measure until a new carrier could be put into service. Their statistics were naturally less than that of a full carrier, but they served their role very effectively. You could build a CVE cheaper and faster than the larger version, and use it as a mobile airfield where you either couldn't spare a full carrier or didn't want to, because you needed your big carriers for an assault.

 

[T'Girl]

And then there the scenario where the segments for a Galaxy Class replacement are desperately need at the neutral zone, but the only drive body available is a Scout Class replacement.

What do you do then?

 

[Saquist]

The Federation better get trans warp because I'm sick of everyone else having it.

Even with this argument about needing different ship sizes why does the design need to change?

The Klingons have different sized Birds of Prey.

You could utilise the Multiclass design and simply create a smaller one or create a bigger one.

So you have 3 or so sizes of the same design.

You don't need a drastic design change like you get between the Intrepid and the Akira.

The segmentation of the saucer could still work but the point is you do not need dozens upon dozens of designs.

Clearly the ships above are not to scale but I am simply making the point that the Federation could use one overall design based on their latest technologies and build different sized ships for different sized roles.

Having the saucer segmented can prove useful, especially if in battle one of the segments is severely damaged and compromised. The ship could eject the damaged segment and have that segment replaced when it returns to the shipyard.

I thought this was common knowledge but it seems that alot of people don know that HULL GEOMETRY decides a vessels warp speed efficiency.

In other words you have the extremely stable but not extremely fast Galaxy Class and the Extremely Fast and quick off the Line Intrepid class. Then you have the Defiant class which completely disregards speed for fire power.

These are all the design difference you need.

 

[ngc7293]

To expand on the idea. These modules could be docked at space stations or at ship yards ready for use.
The modules could also be warp capable so they can head towards the ship they need to connect to. This way the ship and the module meet half way and make the module switch. So the ship can get back underway without travelling so far and the module that was dropped off can set it's own course to dock at the ship yard.

At first I thought you were referring to a Nebula Class type ship but then you got a "Wedgy" Class ship
Each of those sections would have to have: a bridge, Engineering, Warp Core and a pair of nacelles. Not only do I wonder how well they will 'fly', but I also wonder how much room this extra hardware will take up; especially in the smaller wedgy versions.

 

[The_Baroness]

... or the Dominion would have the advantage, having infiltrated the Federation, of being able to study and target the vulnerabilities of the Federation having "put all of its eggs in one basket" (design) and not having any others to fall back on.

That makes no sense. How does having the one design automatically create a vulnerability?

It makes perfect sense. As he said, no ship is perfect. Every ship will have a vulnerability of some kind.

Imagine if there was a weakness in the impulse manifold of a particular class of ship. Fine, an enemy would know how to take out THAT ship should they manage to get hold of the right data, but there are a dozen other classes of ship that they have no data on, and don't share the same weakness.

If you have a fleet made up of all the same ship class, they will all share the same weaknesses, and "Barry the space Hitler" will only need to get hold of the schematics for one ship to know how to duff the entire fleet.

Good strategy there Starfleet.

 

[The_Baroness]

To expand on the idea. These modules could be docked at space stations or at ship yards ready for use.
The modules could also be warp capable so they can head towards the ship they need to connect to. This way the ship and the module meet half way and make the module switch. So the ship can get back underway without travelling so far and the module that was dropped off can set it's own course to dock at the ship yard.

At first I thought you were referring to a Nebula Class type ship but then you got a "Wedgy" Class ship
Each of those sections would have to have: a bridge, Engineering, Warp Core and a pair of nacelles. Not only do I wonder how well they will 'fly', but I also wonder how much room this extra hardware will take up; especially in the smaller wedgy versions.

Not to mention that if every slice of the Pizza class had all of that (which, as you say, it would) the combined whole would just be a mess of highly volatile antimatter tanks, warp cores, and all that jazz.

A hit to what would normally be a pretty minor section of the ship, say, GOD FORBID the X-box room (tragic, but we'll live!) might now cause a breach in one of the many warp cores. It's alot more likely, because you're not going to be able to protect each core like you would with the main one by burying it in the centre of the ship.

 

[Lorna]

Each of those sections would have to have: a bridge, Engineering, Warp Core and a pair of nacelles. Not only do I wonder how well they will 'fly', but I also wonder how much room this extra hardware will take up; especially in the smaller wedgy versions.

Actually if you follow the thread you will find that my original idea was for the saucer section of the Multiclass to be in two parts only, so originally there was only going to be one segment and it would work in the same fashion as the Prometheus class. The front saucer module would connect to the aft saucer section. See my original picture in the first post.

It was then later that I used the insignia class as an example of using segments and the Insignia uses 8 segments. So for the Insignia class it would not be possible for each segment to be warp capable, it would use up too much resources and space.

Not to mention that if every slice of the Pizza class had all of that (which, as you say, it would) the combined whole would just be a mess of highly volatile antimatter tanks, warp cores, and all that jazz.

A hit to what would normally be a pretty minor section of the ship, say, GOD FORBID the X-box room (tragic, but we'll live!) might now cause a breach in one of the many warp cores. It's alot more likely, because you're not going to be able to protect each core like you would with the main one by burying it in the centre of the ship.

Please read my reply above to better understand the thread.

 

[The Inquisitor]

Veriety is the spice of life. Having 1 design would be a wee bit dull, even if the multiple sections did somehow work. I believe (I know I am in the minority here) that MVAM was a good idea, but only because the soul perporse of the class was warfare. For multi role vessels something like the Galaxy Class can handle pretty much anything that is thrown at it. I was under the impression (can't remember where from) that the saucer section of the Galaxy Class is effectivly a blank canvas to be filled with different modules/sections anyway.

Regarding other future federation tech I'd go for QSS or a nice new (fully functioning) coaxial warp drive.

 

[ngc7293]

Actually if you follow the thread you will find that my original idea was for the saucer section of the Multiclass to be in two parts only, so originally there was only going to be one segment and it would work in the same fashion as the Prometheus class. The front saucer module would connect to the aft saucer section. See my original picture in the first post.

It was then later that I used the insignia class as an example of using segments and the Insignia uses 8 segments. So for the Insignia class it would not be possible for each segment to be warp capable, it would use up too much resources and space.

In a large thread like this it is always best to read all of it before you post. I watched as you recanted many of your arguments of your ship. First it was a single ship then it was two ships then it was several ships (admittedly a single design). But you kept the same example. If you had some other idea other than "Operation Wedgy" Maybe it would have helped to name it instead of arguing the same point over and over.

I guess I agree with the others. Many different ships work better than one (or more) identical ship(s)
From a budgetary standpoint, Trek creators would love it. One model for the entire show. But wouldn't it be really boring if the USS Moron met up with with the scout ship USS Wizbang and they were the same ship?

 

[Scout101]

The wedge design (what you ended up going with) has been pretty universally panned, so not sure why it's still being defended. Too much waste by making them have their own propulsion (even without warp, impulse, life support, control, etc would take too much space). Specialized wedges would require specialized crews, so you have all these different crews sitting around doing nothing along with the wedges.

Just not a viable design, and doesn't even pass the initial 'common sense' test. Giving up too much for too little gain.

 

[Tim Walker]

Tech Levels discussed.

 

[C.E. Evans]

This is a necro'd thread from four years ago. The OP hasn't posted since then.

 

[Tarek71]

I recently started a thread about the Federation having multiple ship classes and how I thought it was a little silly having so many.

I was always struck by how few classes they have. There are dozens of ship types, and each one would have multiple classes. You have only to compare real world Carriers, destroyers, survey vessels, ammunition ships and buoy tenders to see that the one-class idea is not really workable.

This doesn't preclude multi-role ships by any means, nor that any particular type shouldn't be mission flexible. But a small survey ship doesn't really need any of the main segments of a Carrier. It's not convertible into the other very easily. The hull is too small, the towers are different in size and configuration. It's just easier to build two different ship types. A survey ship that is always busy surveying, and a Carrier uses the survey ships data, but is quite fully engaged in normal Carrier operations.