Spoilers The Flash - Season 6

[Professor Zoom]

Do you worry about who you work with about what they think about when it comes to issues of today or who they voted for or what kind of sense of humor they have?

I've never had to worry whether or not my co-workers think less of me because of the color of my skin.

But, yes. Because I'm a fucking human being in the world I do actually care what my co-workers think about the issues of today. I do care about kind of humor they have because work is also a social experience. Not a party, but, I don't go into a cubicle and shut off the world from 9 to 5. YMMV

Do you really care what Joe Wilson who works in the next cubicle or fixes the computers etc does when he gets off work at the end of the day and heads off this life?

Jason

Yes. Because I'm a fucking human being.

I don't like the jokes so I don't think they were appropriate but I would still defend his right to say them.

Jason

His right to make them has not been taken away. I would also defend his right to say them. I would however ALSO defend the right of the company to part ways with him because of what he said.

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequence.

 

[BillJ]

Yes. Because I'm a fucking human being.

I don't know why every one is down on Joe Wilson? Yeah, he molests kids, but he only does it during his off hours.

 

[BillJ]

To go back 20 years(which is kind of one of my calling cards because, hey, I'm both a pop culture nerd and trapped in the past) John Rocker of the Atlanta Braves exercised his Constitutional freedom of speech and eventually lost his job because his employers did not want to deal with his extreme toxicity. Rocker was not a victim of anything but his own mouth.

Not to mention he had several minority co-workers.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I don't know why every one is down on Joe Wilson? Yeah, he molests kids, but he only does it during his off hours.

That post might get you fired.

 

[Jayson1]

So nobody thinks that a company can have to much power over it's employee's? So Amazon is okay when they prevent it's workers from taking bathroom breaks? Why in God's name would people want these places to have so much power over people. Maybe in the end this should really come down to making unions strong again in this country. I just really hate how people are siding with actual power over individuals. I know it's not legally free speech being broken but it is people shitting on the principle of free speech when you side over Massive Corporations over the individual. Be nice if we didn't let the 1% control every aspect of our lives.

Jason

 

[BillJ]

So nobody thinks that a company can have to much power over it's employee's? So Amazon is okay when they prevent it's workers from taking bathroom breaks?

Bathroom breaks don't make the company look bad. And employees have an outlet with Occupational Health and Safety (OHSA) when their rights to breaks and lunches are infringed upon.

I know it's not legally free speech being broken but it is people shitting on the principle of free speech when you side over Massive Corporations over the individual.

When the 'individual' is stupid, then yes, I will side with the corporation. Not only am I siding with the corporation, but with the people who have to work with someone who tweets about cutting off female breasts.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I know it's not legally free speech being broken but it is people shitting on the principle of free speech when you side over Massive Corporations over the individual.

Jason

People are shitting on the principle of free speech by applying it incorrectly. Not everything involving words coming out of a person's mouth is a "Free Speech issue."

 

[cooleddie74]

Try using ethnic slurs on The TrekBBS and see how far your freedom of speech goes. Private platform. Private employer. Their rules. Their decision whether or not to continue to allow you to speak out under their roof.

Make the employer or the platform look bad? You're gone and there's no law in the United States that can reverse that decision unless the decision itself were reached through illegal means.

 

[Guy Gardener]

People are shitting on the principle of free speech by applying it incorrectly. Not everything involving words coming out of a person's mouth is a "Free Speech issue."

The principle of free speech is broad, and isn't always protected by the law.

The first ammendment is about a sliver of free speach that is protected by American Law.

The

 

[Jayson1]

I guess that is where I differ. IMO free speech and anti-censorship are the most important things in our society in terms of preventing fascism. It's the only thing from keeping either side going to a bad place. I still believe in the idea that when Conservatives go bad we get Nazi's and when liberals go bad we get Communist. To me protecting not just these rights but the principles of them is one of the most important things you can do in society. I would rather side on caution with freedom that can sometimes hurt feelings over that of forced conformity. I do think some lines are to far to go. Like minstrel shows for example and I am glad gay panic isn't acceptable and also lots of sexist jokes as well but my primary fear is the rise of fascism. Making sure we never get to place like Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union. How you then fight for change when it comes to issues in society is to use elections and the government.

Jason

 

[Professor Zoom]

I guess that is where I differ. IMO free speech and anti-censorship are the most important things in our society in terms of preventing fascism. It's the only thing from keeping either side going to a bad place. I still believe in the idea that when Conservatives go bad we get Nazi's and when liberals go bad we get Communist. To me protecting not just these rights but the principles of them is one of the most important things you can do in society. I would rather side on caution with freedom that can sometimes hurt feelings over that of forced conformity. I do think some lines are to far to go. Like minstrel shows for example and I am glad gay panic isn't acceptable and also lots of sexist jokes as well but my primary fear is the rise of fascism. Making sure we never get to place like Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union. How you then fight for change when it comes to issues in society is to use elections and the government.

Jason

I hope you are this outraged by the Justice Department trying to shut down the publication of Bolton's book. Which actually IS a Free Speech/First Amendment issue.

 

[Jayson1]

I hope you are this outraged by the Justice Department trying to shut down the publication of Bolton's book. Which actually IS a Free Speech/First Amendment issue.

I am. I'm pretty much against it all. I don't even like the concept that government can hide just about any dark thing they ever did under "National Security."

Jason

 

[JD]

Because he said nothing to them. He didn't do these jokes at work. He didn't even do them recently. It's years in the past. Also I am not saying they have to shut up. If they want to call him out then that is fine. People don't have to like each other. They just have to do their jobs and go home and be around people they want to be around. Why should anyone care about what their coworkers think about anything? Do you worry about who you work with about what they think about when it comes to issues of today or who they voted for or what kind of sense of humor they have? Do you really care what Joe Wilson who works in the next cubicle or fixes the computers etc does when he gets off work at the end of the day and heads off this life?


Jason

The problem with an actor having to work with someone they don't like, is that it's not the kind of job where you can just avoid someone. Actors tend to spend long days working very close together, and don't get to choose who they are working with in every situation. It's not as easy for them as just moving to a different part of the office or store or whatever.
Now, once again I disagree with what happened with The Flash because if the time passed, but in general should a show have to potentially lose multiple cast members over what one person said/did? Should they have to lose their lead actor because of what a supporting actor said/did? Should the show have to lose advertisers, which is even more important than actors for network and cables show? Or lose viewers?
When all of that is potentially on the line, I think they are perfectly justified in firing that one actor.

So nobody thinks that a company can have to much power over it's employee's? So Amazon is okay when they prevent it's workers from taking bathroom breaks? Why in God's name would people want these places to have so much power over people. Maybe in the end this should really come down to making unions strong again in this country. I just really hate how people are siding with actual power over individuals. I know it's not legally free speech being broken but it is people shitting on the principle of free speech when you side over Massive Corporations over the individual. Be nice if we didn't let the 1% control every aspect of our lives.

Jason

It's not to much power when they are firing people for inappropriate behavior. Companies are not going to want to be associated with someone who could hurt their public image and their business, especially when it's a business like show business, where image is everything. Should a company be forced to lose business because nobody wants to have anything to do with them anymore after word got out that one of their people said or did something inappropriate?

 

[Professor Zoom]

The problem with an actor having to work with someone they don't like, is that it's not the kind of job where you can just avoid someone. Actors tend to spend long days working very close together, and don't get to choose who they are working with in every situation. It's not as easy for them as just moving to a different part of the office or store or whatever.
Now, once again I disagree with what happened with The Flash because if the time passed, but in general should a show have to potentially lose multiple cast members over what one person said/did? Should they have to lose their lead actor because of what a supporting actor said/did? Should the show have to lose advertisers, which is even more important than actors for network and cables show? Or lose viewers?
When all of that is potentially on the line, I think they are perfectly justified in firing that one actor.

It's not to much power when they are firing people for inappropriate behavior. Companies are not going to want to be associated with someone who could hurt their public image and their business, especially when it's a business like show business, where image is everything. Should a company be forced to lose business because nobody wants to have anything to do with them anymore after word got out that one of their people said or did something inappropriate?

on set tensions can cause delay. Delay is money.

 

[The Wormhole]

When you see these animals ripping down statues and trying to white wash history, that's a problem.

If the removal of a racist statue is a problem for you, it's because you're either
A) A racist
B) A pigeon
Which is it?

 

[Professor Zoom]

If the removal of a racist statue is a problem for you, it's because you're either
A) A racist
B) A pigeon
Which is it?

One wonders when people tore down the statues in Russia how many people in America shouted “But history!!”

Also: all of those statues and the Lost Cause crap was the whitewashing of history. Ironically: so is Gone With The Wind.

 

[cooleddie74]

"The founder of the KGB may have been a bad man but he's a part of history! You can't erase it no matter how bad he was!"

"You know, the KGB did some good things and it's a shame you triggered Russian libs can't see that."

 

[Professor Zoom]

"The founder of the KGB may have been a bad man but he's a part of history! You can't erase it no matter how bad he was!"

"You know, the KGB did some good things and it's a shame you triggered Russian libs can't see that."

Sure those statues of the KGB went up years and years after they fell, but it’s history!

 

[cooleddie74]

"YOUR HERITAGE!!!"

[*Waves hammer and sickle flag*]

 

[Jayson1]

So when people look at what is going on nobody notices the similarities to the Russian Revolution. When you look at how things are playing out it really does feel like history is about to repeat itself. Revolutionaries lead a near bloodless takeover because of the terrible working conditions of the poor and them never addressing the impact of serfdom. Cities like St. Petersburg and Moscow doubled in population creating overcrowding and terrible working conditions.

I feel like we lost our chance on real lasting positive reform that Obama brought that could have been built on and would last when we elected Trump. Trump might as well be the Romanov family and the resistance the Bolsheviks. If these cancel culture things weren't so frequent I wouldn't be worried but it's like a never ending parade of who is going to be destroyed today and it's especially troubling when you see it happening in the media and with ordinary people. You famous movie actor will be fine but I am pretty sure I know how this will end. It's going to get more and more violent every day in America and the need to restrict speech will increase and before you know it the country will be a failed state if it's not already one.

This is what happens when don't have a moderate middle with any pull anymore to try and navigate the conflicts and find peaceful ways to solve problems and pragmatic ways that will last and won't end in bloodshed. I really wish Obama was President today because I feel like he was our last great President and our last real hope of truly making things better in the future.


Jason