Spoilers The Flash - Season 5

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by dodge, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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  2. Romulan_spy

    Romulan_spy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  3. thribs

    thribs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Wouldn't have helped him with waiting in line, though.
     
  5. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    Happy 30th, Barry! Get some better writers.
     
  6. Finn

    Finn Admiral Admiral

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    Wondering why he'd need it....
     
  7. Kirk Prime

    Kirk Prime Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Fair, though we have no evidence that is the case. And is it really in the best interest of the actor if they won't finish a series? It usually comes off as the actor is greedy and isn't fan friendly when they leave on their own. Sometimes creative storylines force an exit, but then it looks like the actor was fired, and fans are more sympathetic. When actors say, "I want to do other things," they look bad. When actors want more money, they look bad. Exiting a series prematurely is a tricky one.

    Not just that but using the cure is an alternative to the death penalty. It can disable the threat without killing.

    Another issue with this season--Killer Frost should be able to defeat him. Supergirl should be able to defeat him. Arrow should be able to defeat him. Have we seen anyone take a gun and try to shoot him? Cicada's power is basically the ability to neutralize other metas. But if you didn't get your powers through dark matter, he should have no effect on you, as Killer Frost showed. Supergirl would wipe the floor with him.
     
  8. Doc Mugatu

    Doc Mugatu Captain Captain

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    Except she hasn't been able to despite trying several times.

    I will modify to say that it has definitely been trending this direction for at least the past two seasons, and they have interjected stupidity before. Maybe it doesn't stand out to me this year because I see it as more of the same from last year.

    Every season they seem to take things off the table first. This season we know despite Cicada's murder spree killing him was not an option. Then they add forcing the cure on him was not an option. I mean the seem to problem solve in reverse. Rather than making a list of possible actions to take they instead rule things out. Logically not a sound way to go, but they choose to anyway.

    I wasn't defending it but then again I am not saying the concept of a Team Flash is "crappy writing" either. I like the concept, and it s sense. The idea that one person could go it alone is a bit juvenile. I just think it got somewhat stagnant hence the shakeup going into next season.

    We have no direct evidence. I would say there is plenty of circumstantial evidence. The primary being that will I am not saying the actors are greedy, however, they generally look to a TV series as the ticket to financial security therefore they are generally highly reluctant to leave until that goal is achieved. secondly, ratings seem down and thirdly, they are in shakeup mode (as there are rumors The Flash could end after season 6).
     
  9. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    ^ The bad writing comment wasn’t about the Team Flash concept...it was a response to your response to Zoom’s post about writing/story issues.
     
  10. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Admiral Admiral

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    She has held him long enough to put cuffs on him. At least twice.

    In fact there was the episode where Cisco put the knife in orbit—Zeus knows why he didn’t put it into another earth’s orbit—Cicada was down... and they all stood around watching.

    Several times they could’ve put the cuffs on him.

    Last year didn’t feature so many times the team standing around watching the bad guy recovering so he could get away.

    I don't mind them taking things off the table, but, in the past, they take things off the table for reasons. And so far, I haven't SEEN or HEARD a reason why they can't use the cuffs. And this episode was "this is our only option."

    And, no... it really isn't. You are saying it is because you want to have this plot point of the Mutant Cu... I mean, the Metagene Cure. But, it's built on a weak foundation so I don't believe it IS the only option.

    TV jobs are jobs for actors. People leave jobs for all kinds of reasons. Personal. Business. And if a fan gets cranky because their favorite actor leaves a show, that's not on the actor.
     
  11. Doc Mugatu

    Doc Mugatu Captain Captain

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    Actually it kinda did. Many episodes with them standing around while the Thinker and his wife furthered his dastardly scheme unmolested. Each season of the past few seasons have been painfully stretched out because they chose a specific formula that, overtime, intuitively becomes harder to sit still for. What they've done this season is really not unlike what they did last year or the year before. They really should give the one storyline per season arc a rest.

    No, you list what you feel is possible then you create a hierarchal list from most preferred to least. That is how you develop options and backup plans. The reality this series rejects (which in turn stunts it dramatic growth and potential) is there are times when your best option is your least preferred, and dealing with it is one life's hardest challenges. Sadly The Flash sidesteps this which is why it will never rise above the rank of juvenile in its writing.

    No, there are probably options, however, the meta "cure" was the most direct (A to B) therefore efficient solution. They could have lopped off his hands so he couldn't throw shard of dark matter. They could have strove to kill him. They could attempt to lobotomize Cicada. But again the series likes to make them feel guilty over things they can't control and shrug off things that they can. So far they seem to feel no guilt over capturing a murderous criminal who then escapes to kill again. Civilian lives are fodder to them so you get a certain hypocritical feel good about themselves "morality."

    Crickey, you've never worked in television! I remember in the lead up to both Voyager and then again Enterprise (even DS9 to be honest) all the actors in the interviews were looking forward to the financial security the series would bring them. You work a series (hopefully a 7 season run) so you can amass that coveted "F.U." money that allows one to start picking and choosing their jobs. Actors especially will look to go the distance on a series unless there is something dysfunctional going on behind the scenes.

    Also the fact several are leaving at once (2 actors and 1 showrunner so far) has all the earmarks of a shakeup because the metrics have softened. That is not to be construed as a negative on anyone. It is just the way things go sometimes.

    As for their leaving, I am not cranky about it one bit. I like both characters, however, I also feel the series would benefit from a big change. Secondly, all seems to be on good terms so I hope they'll be brought back from time to time. Maybe they'll transfer to Legends final season.
     
  12. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Admiral Admiral

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    Crickey! My wife is an actor. I’m gonna guess I have a much clearer understanding of how the business actually works than someone on the internet.

    Edited to add: 5 years on a show, if you have save well, and with the residuals will provide a very nice life. And it’s not always about the money for some people. Being on a show can limit what you do or who you see—Mr. Terrific is leaving Arrow because he wants to see his kids and family.

    Fans see a show differently than those who have to report to work at 6 am and work for 14 hours.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
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  13. Doc Mugatu

    Doc Mugatu Captain Captain

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    Apparently you do. I worked in television for 25 years. Anyone who is so casual about it being "just a job" and jumping ship from an ongoing series is a buffoon as there are zero guarantees lightning will strike again for them. Of all the pilots scripts that get ordered most are DOA. A relatively small number will get a pilot order and from there maybe half-dozen to a dozen get an initial series order. Of those it's a crap shoot if they go on to get a full order or a second season. I too have known many actors. Some are really, really talented but still haven't "made it." Residuals don't go as far as you seem to think and I'll bet neither Panabaker or Valdes has a percentage of the series. Grant Gustin maybe.

    So I'm not going to question your wife's credentials, but I will wish her well and much success.

    Edited to add: Keeping to Star Trek as an example: Nichelle Nichols, according to Solow & Justman's book, was paid a minimal salary but they agreed to support her pretense of being a bigger deal than she actually was. B.S. and P.R. is the entertainment industries stock and trade.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  14. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Admiral Admiral

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    I don’t think someone is a buffoon for having different values as me. If someone wants to leave a job because they want to spend more time with their kids or do something else with their time on Earth that’s their business. They all know the business. The risks, etc. They aren’t buffoons for wanting something different.
     
  15. matthunter

    matthunter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Panabaker has a net worth of $3 million, whatever she chooses to do next I doubt she needs to worry about a paycheck for some time. Given her extensive film/TV career I also doubt she'll lack for a paying gig should she need one.

    Valdes is estimated to be worth around $1 million, so less well-off but again I don't think he needs to worry about cash.
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^What are your sources for their estimated net worth? It hadn't occurred to me that that was something you could just look up about someone, unless they were a business magnate or something.
     
  17. matthunter

    matthunter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Google - there are Celebrity Net Worth sites. They are likely estimates but reasonably accurate, unless one is engaging in asset inflation like Trump.
     
  18. Doc Mugatu

    Doc Mugatu Captain Captain

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    I never said they were "buffoons" for wanting something different. I also wouldn't say "different values" as much as our priorities may change over time. I also do not disagree and have not disagreed with the idea that people make decisions for all sorts of reasons. No, what set me off was the "it's just a job." I've been honored to be part of many wonderful crews and I can tell you that was not the attitude either in front of or behind the camera. If someone says it is then it's either bluster or burnout (either way "buffoonery").

    Sure, some actors leave for family reasons. Some leave to go back to theater. I'm just saying whenever possible they usually do it after achieving the "F.U. Money" threshold. Again, there is also a general let's not rock-the-boat when the network is happy with performance. When you have many changes occurring on one show in close proximity of one another, well, that's usually a sign of shake-up. We haven't even gotten into the summer hiatus yet where I bet there will be even more announcements.

    A $1 to $3 million net worth is nice, but that is not much (Note: Net worth is the amount by which assets exceed liabilities.). For one thing, most of that is not liquid (meaning you have to go through a process to convert it to cash which invites fees, taxes and market fluctuations). A house, for example, could easily represent 50% or more of that valuation (meaning there are upkeep costs and taxes associated with it).

    Their sources, calculations and accuracy are ALL very dubious. Those sites have zero credibility. NONE!
     
  19. Snaploud

    Snaploud Admiral Admiral

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    It's generally a very bad idea financially for an actor to voluntarily leave a gig as a long-running regular of a television show. That's when television actors make the bulk of their career money, and they may never see such high pay again.

    That being said: it still happens all the time. It's just financially unwise.
     
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  20. matthunter

    matthunter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, this explains the attitude.