Spoilers The Flash - Season 2

[Guy Gardener]

Yes.

But property taxes and utilities are chronic and excessive... Um? STARLabs is a company not a building, maybe/shouldn't they have other outlets out there nationally and globally that still does science for profit?

The Lawyer said that the all the money issues concerning the property would be taken care of only if Barry looked at that "will" on Thawne's thumbdrive, other wise it's all into receivership.

This sounds like there's a slush fund somewhere with trillions in it keeping Starlabs afloat in only the most superficial ways. It's a clubhouse, not a bussines.

To get Starlabs up and running, Barry would have to hire/subcontract hundreds of thousands of people for menial and important jobs, and then figure out a way to pay for them all... Which is millions to 100s of millions of dollars turning over every year.

Remind me how much he gets paid as a CSI for the CCPD?

 

[sojourner]

Speaking of Star Labs, when are they going to get back to the future computer? That would seem like quite the asset. Or did it get selectively removed from time like Eobard?

 

[Guy Gardener]

They did mention Gideon yesterday, but they didn't specify if it had been temporally redacted or not.

 

[TheSeeker]

I think that could go either way, but it would seem to me that it should still exist since eliminating Thawne clearly did not eliminate all traces of his existence if they can all still remember him and Gideon. Who knows? Time travel on TV really has whatever rules the writers decide it has.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Gideon could still be there because someone else could have brought it to the past.

Thawne was not %100 essential to the vault's current position in spacetime.

 

[TheSeeker]

Very true. Zoom?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Oh no, it was Thawne, but as long as there might be more than a %00.0 probability that it was someone else, then the room stays. The time Vault is not going to Vanish in the present until the the present is the 23rd century and Eobard doesn't take it to the past, if it still exists, that is.

Or am I misunderstanding the rules in play here?

 

[theenglish]

Oh no, it was Thawne, but as long as there might be more than a %00.0 probability that it was someone else, then the room stays. The time Vault is not going to Vanish in the present until the the present is the 23rd century and Eobard doesn't take it to the past, if it still exists, that is.

Or am I misunderstanding the rules in play here?

Do we know it was Thawne? Perhaps it belongs to Rip Hunter?

 

[TemporalFlux]

I think that could go either way, but it would seem to me that it should still exist since eliminating Thawne clearly did not eliminate all traces of his existence if they can all still remember him and Gideon. Who knows? Time travel on TV really has whatever rules the writers decide it has.

I think that big singularity was meant to wipe the rest of history clean from Thawne's influence, but Barry and co stopped it. Thawne still disappeared because he was ground zero; and the singularity probably worked backwards from the future meaning that any future history Gideon had is now suspect.

 

[shapeshifter]

Did Barry stop it though?

Wasn't the reason he split from the group because of guilt he felt about failing to stop the singularity. I did not ever hear him admit Firestorm was the real Hero. Isn't the apparent happy ending soiled by his secret and will it come back to bite him?

That's how I interpreted the events, did I miss something that resolved this?

 

[SAndrews10]

I read a few articles last night/interviews with the producers, can't remember which one or I'd link it but they said Gideon is gone.

 

[sojourner]

Did Barry stop it though?

Wasn't the reason he split from the group because of guilt he felt about failing to stop the singularity. I did not ever hear him admit Firestorm was the real Hero. Isn't the apparent happy ending soiled by his secret and will it come back to bite him?

That's how I interpreted the events, did I miss something that resolved this?

Did you miss the whole scene where Firestorm split in order to stop the singularity?

Barry felt guilty for not saving Ronnie and for getting the credit for saving the city when it was really Firestorm.

 

[shapeshifter]

Did Barry stop it though?

Wasn't the reason he split from the group because of guilt he felt about failing to stop the singularity. I did not ever hear him admit Firestorm was the real Hero. Isn't the apparent happy ending soiled by his secret and will it come back to bite him?

That's how I interpreted the events, did I miss something that resolved this?

Did you miss the whole scene where Firestorm split in order to stop the singularity?

No, I saw that.

Barry felt guilty for not saving Ronnie and for getting the credit for saving the city when it was really Firestorm.

I know, I said that. I'm trying to figure out if/when everyone, or at least other team members, found out Barry wasn't the hero after all - or is what really happened still only known by Barry?

 

[JD]

Might be more likely that Caitlin of Earth 2 is Killer Frost over there.

That's been my guess since we found out alternate universes were coming into play.

 

[Christopher]

I know, I said that. I'm trying to figure out if/when everyone, or at least other team members, found out Barry wasn't the hero after all - or is what really happened still only known by Barry?

It seemed pretty clear that the team knew what happened. There's no reason Barry or Stein would hide it from them. As for why they didn't tell the general public, maybe there are reasons to keep Firestorm's sacrifice a secret, especially considering that half of Firestorm is still alive. It might prove difficult to explain what happened without jeopardizing some secret identities.

Besides, it was a team effort. Firestorm wouldn't have been able to shut down the singularity if the Flash hadn't stabilized it first. Barry may not consider himself worthy of the praise, but he did contribute to the solution. (Leaving aside the fact that it was his decision to time-travel that caused the singularity in the first place. But I think that was implicitly acknowledged in the lines about everyone involved having made choices that day and having to live with them.)

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

I'm guessing Barry has already told everyone at least the broad strokes of his belief that he wasn't the hero that day. They AREN'T talking about it because they already know.

Moreover, his guilt is perhaps overplayed, but in his mind it's certainly well-deserved. After all, if you look at last year's finale and the immediate consequences, we see that the payoff for his selfish decision to (not) alter time was huge. He goes back intent on saving his mom, but instead watches her die. Then he comes back, and literally within minutes Eddie's dead, Ronnie's dead, and the City is trashed with who knows how many casualties.

Sure, he saved the WORLD, but the whole thing branches from that one decision to try to save one person who was already dead. The ultimate payoff was springing his dad, but methinks time travel won't cross his mind all too often from now on.

Mark

 

[sojourner]

Did Barry stop it though?

Wasn't the reason he split from the group because of guilt he felt about failing to stop the singularity. I did not ever hear him admit Firestorm was the real Hero. Isn't the apparent happy ending soiled by his secret and will it come back to bite him?

That's how I interpreted the events, did I miss something that resolved this?

Did you miss the whole scene where Firestorm split in order to stop the singularity?

No, I saw that.

Barry felt guilty for not saving Ronnie and for getting the credit for saving the city when it was really Firestorm.

I know, I said that. I'm trying to figure out if/when everyone, or at least other team members, found out Barry wasn't the hero after all - or is what really happened still only known by Barry?

Stein came up with the plan and was right there with everyone when he brought it up. I'm not sure how the group could not possibly know unless there was some amnesia ray in the version of the episode you saw.

 

[theenglish]

I know, I said that. I'm trying to figure out if/when everyone, or at least other team members, found out Barry wasn't the hero after all - or is what really happened still only known by Barry?

It seemed pretty clear that the team knew what happened. There's no reason Barry or Stein would hide it from them. As for why they didn't tell the general public, maybe there are reasons to keep Firestorm's sacrifice a secret, especially considering that half of Firestorm is still alive. It might prove difficult to explain what happened without jeopardizing some secret identities.

Besides, it was a team effort. Firestorm wouldn't have been able to shut down the singularity if the Flash hadn't stabilized it first. Barry may not consider himself worthy of the praise, but he did contribute to the solution. (Leaving aside the fact that it was his decision to time-travel that caused the singularity in the first place. But I think that was implicitly acknowledged in the lines about everyone involved having made choices that day and having to live with them.)

I also think it is pretty clear that the other team members, including Caitlin, believe that Barry is a hero worthy of the attention that has been given to him. Ronny might be an unsung hero given that it was a team effort but Caitlin certainly hasn't taken anything away from what Barry did. At one point Barry is even told that everyone had a role to play in the decisions that led to the formation of the wormhole and he shouldn't be trying to take all the blame of the consequences upon himself.

The entire theme of the episode is that Barry is truly a hero, even if he doesn't really feel that way at the moment.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The miniblackhole opened because Eddie shot himself.

Eddie shot himself because Barry spitefully wouldn't let Thawne go back to the future after making a deal that Thawne could go back to the Future in exchange for allowing him the opportunity to save his mother in the past.

Barry is a dishonest welcher.

Because of changes to the timeline, even without knowing his future family tree, and being a cop shot at daily, that black hole was always going to open if Eddie got shot, or killed somehow in the line of duty, and ditto for whosoever Eddie was supposed to knock up. That's what the #### Eobard should have been telling Eddie when he held him prisoner for a week, "Here's the phone number of my great, great, great grandmother, she's hot, really hot, if we weren't related, I'd totally go there, so forget about Iris, because this is the girl for you. Go and make some babies, my future depends on it, thank you." Meanwhile instead, what did happen was just an endless series of triggers to make Eddie suicidally depressed, until Stein made him suicidally happy.

What about the alt timeline with the Tidal wave that destroyed Central City?

If Eddie had died, by tidal wave, wouldn't a similar black whole have opened up and destroyed the world, followed by the rest of the universe too?

 

[theenglish]

The miniblackhole opened because Eddie shot himself.

Eddie shot himself because Barry spitefully wouldn't let Thawne go back to the future after making a deal that Thawne could go back to the Future in exchange for allowing him the opportunity to save his mother in the past.

Barry is a dishonest welcher.

Because of changes to the timeline, even without knowing his future family tree, and being a cop shot at daily, that black hole was always going to open if Eddie got shot, or killed somehow in the line of duty, and ditto for whosoever Eddie was supposed to knock up. That's what the #### Eobard should have been telling Eddie when he held him prisoner for a week, "Here's the phone number of my great, great, great grandmother, she's hot, really hot, if we weren't related, I'd totally go there, so forget about Iris, because this is the girl for you. Go and make some babies, my future depends on it, thank you." Meanwhile instead, what did happen was just an endless series of triggers to make Eddie suicidally depressed, until Stein made him suicidally happy.

What about the alt timeline with the Tidal wave that destroyed Central City?

If Eddie had died, by tidal wave, wouldn't a similar black whole have opened up and destroyed the world, followed by the rest of the universe too?

Hey, I was the biggest critique of the time-warp paradox, but the writers just forgot about it--until the mid season Legends premier at least--so just take a deep breath and let it go.