I didn't really care for tonight's turn of events. The episode felt like a copout from last week's more epic storytelling. Barry made an ass of himself and got a bit cocky knowing what he knew.
The Flash - Season 1
- Thread starter Agent Richard07
- Start date
3 obvious sorts of days can happen in fiction that time travel can play on.
1. Fantastic days that shouldn't have been destroyed, which forces will fight tooth and nail to bring back.
2. Meh days where it's a struggle to identify that there's been a do-over.
3. Awful days that need to be put out of it's misery as quickly as possible.
I think #2 sounds like a Douglas Adams joke?
Although there was a point in Frequently Asked Questions About Time Travel where they're 20 minutes in the past, and afraid of breaking the time space continuum, so the imagineers hide in a cupboard under a staircase like frightened mice.
Ooo?
What was that?
There's this guy that can only travel back in time 60 seconds, but since he was knocked in the back of the head, and passed out for 61 seconds while falling off the empire state building, he can only go back in time to the beginning of his fall, and not till when he was still standing on the observation deck.
What the hell is that from?
I think he eventually gave up, and let himself hit the ground which is when he started the other end of his time bubble 30 seconds later and several hundred meters closer to the asphalt, which was because his girlfriend was bringing him back from the dead with a second time device, and then letting him eat pavement over and over again, which was not making him happy.
No, seriously? What the #### is that from?
Google is no help.
Gotta wade through ten thousand pages of about pennies dropped from the top of the Empire State Building.
1. Fantastic days that shouldn't have been destroyed, which forces will fight tooth and nail to bring back.
2. Meh days where it's a struggle to identify that there's been a do-over.
3. Awful days that need to be put out of it's misery as quickly as possible.
I think #2 sounds like a Douglas Adams joke?
Although there was a point in Frequently Asked Questions About Time Travel where they're 20 minutes in the past, and afraid of breaking the time space continuum, so the imagineers hide in a cupboard under a staircase like frightened mice.
Ooo?
What was that?
There's this guy that can only travel back in time 60 seconds, but since he was knocked in the back of the head, and passed out for 61 seconds while falling off the empire state building, he can only go back in time to the beginning of his fall, and not till when he was still standing on the observation deck.
What the hell is that from?
I think he eventually gave up, and let himself hit the ground which is when he started the other end of his time bubble 30 seconds later and several hundred meters closer to the asphalt, which was because his girlfriend was bringing him back from the dead with a second time device, and then letting him eat pavement over and over again, which was not making him happy.
No, seriously? What the #### is that from?
Google is no help.
Gotta wade through ten thousand pages of about pennies dropped from the top of the Empire State Building.
THANK-YOU!!
In my mind, I'd converted the memories to live action in 3d.
In my mind, I'd converted the memories to live action in 3d.
It wasn't believable that Iris told Eddie about what Barry did but that was balanced by it being equally unbelievable that they (or at least he) fell for him have lightning whatever as an excuse.
What a godawful episode.
I'm no DC man and i know very little about comicbook Flash so i may miss most of the insider hints or can't get overly excited when another villain appears from the books.
However i like the show, most of the characters and the cheese of it at times. Best thing is the mystery surrounding Wells and i was pretty much surprised when Wells revealed himself to Cisco (for a few moments i thought the last episode was the season finale) but when he killed him all my alarms went off pointing directly at the Big Reset Button.
I hoped i was wrong but they beat the button to pulp in this one.
All major events in the last episode didn't happen, we get a surrogate story by reusing an existing villain (and Barry trusts him actually to keep his word? Come On!
) and the absolute idiocy of "lightning sickness" to explain Barry's behaviour (and two smart people actually bought it).
About the only redeeming thing is that they finally ended the doomed relationship (though i will miss her.. she seemed cool and very easy on the eyes) and Wells murdering someone for real this time to cover his tracks or further/safeguard his plans.
When those shocking events happened last episode i really hoped they had something good in store and would pull a fast one on the fans ans actually stick by it.. elevate a fun but standard mediocre CW show to greatness but apparently that's not something they want to do.
Shame.. up until this episode i really enjoyed The Flash (and will probably if that is this seasons only major suck episode) but they should stay well away from killing off characters if they don't intend to pull through.
I'm no DC man and i know very little about comicbook Flash so i may miss most of the insider hints or can't get overly excited when another villain appears from the books.
However i like the show, most of the characters and the cheese of it at times. Best thing is the mystery surrounding Wells and i was pretty much surprised when Wells revealed himself to Cisco (for a few moments i thought the last episode was the season finale) but when he killed him all my alarms went off pointing directly at the Big Reset Button.
I hoped i was wrong but they beat the button to pulp in this one.
All major events in the last episode didn't happen, we get a surrogate story by reusing an existing villain (and Barry trusts him actually to keep his word? Come On!
) and the absolute idiocy of "lightning sickness" to explain Barry's behaviour (and two smart people actually bought it).About the only redeeming thing is that they finally ended the doomed relationship (though i will miss her.. she seemed cool and very easy on the eyes) and Wells murdering someone for real this time to cover his tracks or further/safeguard his plans.
When those shocking events happened last episode i really hoped they had something good in store and would pull a fast one on the fans ans actually stick by it.. elevate a fun but standard mediocre CW show to greatness but apparently that's not something they want to do.
Shame.. up until this episode i really enjoyed The Flash (and will probably if that is this seasons only major suck episode) but they should stay well away from killing off characters if they don't intend to pull through.
I'm of the inclination that this wasn't a "reset button" episode...not entirely anyway. Traditionally, when I think "reset button" I tend to picture a story that ends how it begins with none of the intervening events having *any* significance.
Clearly that is not the case here. Barry's foreknowledge allowed him to prevent the tidal wave, but at the cost of his identity being exposed and pretty much sink any chance he may have had with Iris (at least until season 2 or 3) to say nothing of giving up on Linda without a fight. In short, there were very definite consequences and everything is not "back to normal".
As for Wells and Cisco, sure, Barry never knew what happened so it may seem pointless from an in-universe perspective. However, we as an audience got to see Wells and Cisco have two eerily similar yet diametrically different scenes. One in which Wells reveals all and kills Cisco and another where Wells (using almost exactly the same dialogue) persuades Cisco to stay. In that we get a real insight into what both Well and Cisco are made of. What motivates them, how far they'll go and yes, even what they mean to one another.
Honestly for me Wells is shaping up to be the highlight of the show. Probably the most nuanced and sympathetic villain since Xanatos from 'Gargoyles'.
Clearly that is not the case here. Barry's foreknowledge allowed him to prevent the tidal wave, but at the cost of his identity being exposed and pretty much sink any chance he may have had with Iris (at least until season 2 or 3) to say nothing of giving up on Linda without a fight. In short, there were very definite consequences and everything is not "back to normal".
As for Wells and Cisco, sure, Barry never knew what happened so it may seem pointless from an in-universe perspective. However, we as an audience got to see Wells and Cisco have two eerily similar yet diametrically different scenes. One in which Wells reveals all and kills Cisco and another where Wells (using almost exactly the same dialogue) persuades Cisco to stay. In that we get a real insight into what both Well and Cisco are made of. What motivates them, how far they'll go and yes, even what they mean to one another.
Honestly for me Wells is shaping up to be the highlight of the show. Probably the most nuanced and sympathetic villain since Xanatos from 'Gargoyles'.
Voyager ran for seven years; The Flash should be so lucky.
Seriously? Did you guys actually expect Cisco to stay dead?
Personally I have a hard time being upset with the reset when it was clear from the outset that the death wouldn't stick, and that Cisco was too integral and beloved a character to kill off so soon.And I seriously doubt people would be calling this a boring, crap episode if it wasn't following up such a massive and epic episode as the last one. That sounds to me more like people just being bitter about the previous events were rewritten (as they obviously had to be) more than anything.
If this ep aired a few weeks ago I think people would be liking it a helluva lot more. Especially with Cold learning Barry's secret and Reverse Flash making another appearance to kill Iris's mentor.
One other thing I appreciated was how they didn't do the predictable thing of having Barry relive all the same moments again all the way through, like out of BTTF2, but had him veering off on a completely different path with whole new events-- as you would kind of expect to happen once he started doing things a bit differently than before.
What is the point then of Wells killing Cisco other than shock value if the powers that be decided in advance it wouldn't matter?
Other than showing how stone cold Wells can be it had little relevance. It is a fine balance for a hero show to fight a villain and make the villain so superior that the hero barely gets out alive.
Do this every week and it becomes pointless because we all know the hero will make it and defeat the villain.
Now that's part of the show formula and not every show can be Breaking Bad level but it was still pointless and it gives us, the viewers, the hint that everyone whose name appears in the title is safe from everything.
Usually it doesn't matter because we watch the show to be entertained and not because we want to see brutal reality (for that we only need to watch the news) but why set such a blatant precedent? It just makes no story sense to go there if you are not having a plan to get something significant out of it.
I'd have stood up and applauded if they actually went through with that but Flash obviously isn't that kind of show that only airs on cable networks. It's still fun to watch but i'd rather they stay away from some cheap shock tricks.
Other than showing how stone cold Wells can be it had little relevance. It is a fine balance for a hero show to fight a villain and make the villain so superior that the hero barely gets out alive.
Do this every week and it becomes pointless because we all know the hero will make it and defeat the villain.
Now that's part of the show formula and not every show can be Breaking Bad level but it was still pointless and it gives us, the viewers, the hint that everyone whose name appears in the title is safe from everything.
Usually it doesn't matter because we watch the show to be entertained and not because we want to see brutal reality (for that we only need to watch the news) but why set such a blatant precedent? It just makes no story sense to go there if you are not having a plan to get something significant out of it.
I'd have stood up and applauded if they actually went through with that but Flash obviously isn't that kind of show that only airs on cable networks. It's still fun to watch but i'd rather they stay away from some cheap shock tricks.
That was the relevance - showing how far Wells would go to protect his secret. He didn't know it'd get reset.
I think it's a little early for that. There's no law that says he'll be around for the second season, for one.
If Barry had gone back in time purposefully to save Cisco that'd be one thing. He didn't. He didn't even know what happened.
For me, it would have been something if going back ended up getting Cisco's *brother* killed and Barry had to carry that with him.
For me the fact the death was rewritten doesn't change how incredibly shocking and powerful it originally was to watch. And the point was to make it clearer than ever how dangerous Wells is, and that he would have no problem killing Caitlin or Cisco when the time comes, or if he ever feels too threatened-- which should only increase the tension once they start going down the road of investigating him again (not to mention just anytime one of them is alone in a room with the guy! Lol)
And doing this once or twice is a far cry from what we saw with shows like Voyager, where things were magically reset at the beginning of practically every episode. For the most part the Flash writers have proven to be MUCH better at respecting and staying true to continuity.
And besides, it's not like Arrow and other shows haven't "killed off" characters in epic event episodes, only to bring them back a little while later. It's just par for the course with these kinds of shows, and should definitely be expected for a show as overtly comic booky as Flash is.
And doing this once or twice is a far cry from what we saw with shows like Voyager, where things were magically reset at the beginning of practically every episode. For the most part the Flash writers have proven to be MUCH better at respecting and staying true to continuity.
And besides, it's not like Arrow and other shows haven't "killed off" characters in epic event episodes, only to bring them back a little while later. It's just par for the course with these kinds of shows, and should definitely be expected for a show as overtly comic booky as Flash is.
EDITED TO ADD: Yeah, it kind of strikes me as being like in the comics when they kill off a character during a big event series, only to bring them back a year or two later. These are comic book series after all, so it shouldn't be to surprising to see them kill off characters and then revive them later.
ORIGINAL POST, WRITTEN IN RESPONSE TO FP ALPHA'S POST:
From my perspective the whole point of the scene was the Eobard Thawne reveal, and to show us that he was willing to kill pretty much anyone, even someone he thought of as a surrogate son, to protect his plans. Even if Cisco's death was prevented through time travel, we still know what we learned even if the characters don't.
I did get a kick out of the new version of that scene we got here. I actually thought for a couple seconds that Wells was going to reveal himself again, and kill Cisco.
I was kind of surprised we didn't just get a replay of last week's episode, but I actually liked what we got here better. We did get the effects of what Barry knew with him capturing Weather Wizard and his disastrous conversation with Iris.
I like the Snarts and Mick, so I enjoyed the story we got with them and Cisco.
It will be interesting to see what reprecusions Cold learning Barry is The Flash will have. Has that ever happened in the comics?
Do we know yet if they'll be introducing Mirror Master at all this season? He seems to be the one of only major Flash villains (is he a Rogue or just a villain?) they haven't introduced yet.
ORIGINAL POST, WRITTEN IN RESPONSE TO FP ALPHA'S POST:
From my perspective the whole point of the scene was the Eobard Thawne reveal, and to show us that he was willing to kill pretty much anyone, even someone he thought of as a surrogate son, to protect his plans. Even if Cisco's death was prevented through time travel, we still know what we learned even if the characters don't.
I did get a kick out of the new version of that scene we got here. I actually thought for a couple seconds that Wells was going to reveal himself again, and kill Cisco.
I was kind of surprised we didn't just get a replay of last week's episode, but I actually liked what we got here better. We did get the effects of what Barry knew with him capturing Weather Wizard and his disastrous conversation with Iris.
I like the Snarts and Mick, so I enjoyed the story we got with them and Cisco.
It will be interesting to see what reprecusions Cold learning Barry is The Flash will have. Has that ever happened in the comics?
Do we know yet if they'll be introducing Mirror Master at all this season? He seems to be the one of only major Flash villains (is he a Rogue or just a villain?) they haven't introduced yet.
Did you actually believe for even one second that there would not be a reset? The point isn't whether the events change or not, the point is what effect the events have on Barry.
Do you believe even for one second that Barry hasn't been affected?
See, the difference for me was that with Voyager every time travel reset was completely ignored the next episode. This story has pushed Barry forward in understanding his powers, understanding the consequences of time travel, and understanding the risks that accompany what he knows he must do in the near future. If these two episodes never happened then what effect would that have on him eventually travelling back to save his mother? These two episodes aren't a reset, they aren't filler, they are what the season and the series so far has been all about.
Barry now know that Wells cannot be trusted and will investigate him. That is a pretty significant development.
In a late 70s story, Heat Wave unmasked an unconscious Flash before putting him in a deathtrap. He thought Barry looked familiar but couldn't place him. When the story was concluded and Heat Wave was sitting in a cell, they made a point of letting us know that Heat Wave remembered Flash's face. I'm not sure if that ever came up again before Barry died.
