The Federation is a military group

[CorporalCaptain]

When someone says, "both can be true," they really need to say what the two things are, exactly.

I always took it to mean all military branches were combined to become Starfleet.

Me, too. But there is no contradiction in assuming multiple uniformed services being combined into one, including one or more that are not armed. The US has 8 uniformed services, 6 armed (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Space Force, Coast Guard) and 2 not armed (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and Public Health Service) [https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2020-title37/html/USCODE-2020-title37-chap1-sec101.htm].

 

[fireproof78]

When someone says, "both can be true," they really need to say what the two things are, exactly.

Starfleet is both a military and exploration service branch.

 

[ED-209]

To be fair to the OP, Star Trek ‘09 perpetuates that confusion with the line where Pike describes the Federation as a humanitarian armada. He obviously means Starfleet — the line is nonsensical otherwise, like calling the United States a navy — but that’s the line as said onscreen.

That scene is like nails on a blackboard, how did they make such a glaring error??

 

[fireproof78]

That scene is like nails on a blackboard, how did they make such a glaring error??

It was a typo that could not be fixed due to a writer's strike. No edits could be made to the script.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That scene is like nails on a blackboard, how did they make such a glaring error??

Yeah my inner nerd surfaced hearing that line.

 

[ED-209]

In my head canon I just say he's speaking service slang - but it's a massive stretch.

 

[fireproof78]

Meh. He misspoke briefly. Apparently that doesn't happen to anyone else here though.

 

[ED-209]

If I was trying to talk someone into joining the Navy I wouldn't say:

"The EU is a peacekeeping Armada"

It's not a slipup it's a major error.

 

[fireproof78]

If I was trying to talk someone into joining the Navy I wouldn't say:

"The EU is a peacekeeping Armada"

It's not a slipup it's a major error.

It really isn't. It's using an incorrect term that is easily correctable.

It's making a mountain out of a molehill because Pike used one word wrong, and they couldn't change it because of exterior factors. If that is the slip up that impacts the enjoyment of a film then I will simply guess that the film wasn't that engaging to begin with.

 

[Phaser Two]

It was never stated in TOS that Starfleet was not a military organization. That notion came much later during TNG.

And good heavens, was it silly.

That scene is like nails on a blackboard, how did they make such a glaring error??

They were just unwilling or unable to take the time and make the effort needed to put out a high-quality product - see also making the bridge an Apple store and Engineering a brewery.

 

[BillJ]

"I'm a soldier, not a diplomat." - James T. Kirk, "Errand of Mercy"

 

[ED-209]

"I'm a soldier, not a diplomat." - James T. Kirk, "Errand of Mercy"

“Starfleet is not a military organisation” Jean Luc Picard.

One of a thousand contradictions.

 

[evilchumlee]

No, but yes, but also no.

Starfleet is *A* military organization. But it is not just, or even primarily, a military organization.

Military roles are a part of what it does, and it does keep a military-like rank structure while forgoing some of the discipline and formality. The rank structure is also not nearly as rigid as a true military would be.

Starfleet is militaryish.

 

[ED-209]

Yep, my quote is Picard spouting Federation propaganda.

 

[evilchumlee]

Yep, my quote is Picard spouting Federation propaganda.

I wouldn't word it quite like that, but I also don't think that's entire incorrect.

I think Picard tends to do that. He also talks about how the Federation doesn't use money... the acquisition of wealth doesn't drive them, yadda yadda... real easy to say when you are Space Wealthy, own a French Chateau and in your retirement have a literal wait staff... sure, Jean-Luc... YOU don't need money, because you HAVE it.

But I also don't think it's in anyway an ignorant or malevolent type thing. Picard is speaking from his perspective, and he truly believes it.

Picard doesn't believe Starfleet is a military. He tries to be as non-military as possible. There is truth to it. It's not a straight answer. Somebody like a Jellico would say, "Yes, Starfleet is absolutely military."

Picard doesn't believe people are driven by wealth, and that "they don't need money". Because... it's true, to an extent. They don't have a traditional capitalist economy, but they are NOT truly post-scarcity. Not everyone can live in a French Chateau with a wait staff... but basic needs are met and everyone can live without fear of starving or homelessness. Still though, there IS some kind of resource allocation, and Picard benefits greatly from that... so money isn't important... to him.

 

[Warped9]

A knee-jerk reaction from a lot of people is that military organizations exist solely to foster warfare—they’re itching for an excuse to fight and blow shit up.

But most people who have actually been in war have no desire whatsoever to be ever be in one again. Professional military people fight only when there is no other option to secure the peace. Nonetheless they’re prepared if called upon.

TOS depicted this well—depicting the ideal of what a contemporary military could be. But later productions were based more on a broad misconception of a military organization. And a lot of later fans project that onto the TOS era.

 

[ED-209]

Good way of putting it

 

[Oddish]

“Starfleet is not a military organisation” Jean Luc Picard.

One of a thousand contradictions.

Yep, my quote is Picard spouting Federation propaganda.

Sometimes, a writer will have a Trek character say something that just doesn't make sense in the greater context of the show.

 

[fireproof78]

A knee-jerk reaction from a lot of people is that military organizations exist solely to foster warfare—they’re itching for an excuse to fight and blow shit up.

But most people who have actually been in war have no desire whatsoever to be ever be in one again. Professional military people fight only when there is no other option to secure the peace. Nonetheless they’re prepared if called upon.

TOS depicted this well—depicting the ideal of what a contemporary military could be. But later productions were based more on a broad misconception of a military organization. And a lot of later fans project that onto the TOS era.

Exactly.

 

[FredH]

“Starfleet is not a military organisation” Jean Luc Picard.

One of a thousand contradictions.

For a short time (say a few years around the 2350s through the early 2360s), it’s reasonable to think from Picard’s dialogue that Starfleet was trying not to be a military anymore, the Cardassian conflict aside—heck, maybe because of it. But the universe just didn’t let that work out.