"The farming colony Gault"

[Timo]

we know there are things that can't be replicated, latinum from example.

But we don't. There is no episode or movie that would say latinum cannot be replicated, none to say dilithium cannot be replicated, none to say people can't be replicated. In terms of dialog, everything can be replicated.

It is said to be too difficult to replicate some things in specific circumstances, though. You obviously don't replicate X if it's cheaper or more convenient or otherwise desirable to obtain X by other means. Thus, you still mine unobtainium, you still weld your starships together from components, and you give birth to your daughter instead of replicating her.

Despite having far less scarcity than we have today, I think there is plenty of evidence that energy is not unlimited in the 24th century and almost certainly not in the 23rd.

I'd argue the exact opposite. There is zero evidence that our future heroes would wish to save energy - zero dialogue references, zero instances of them choosing the energy-cheaper out of two options. And certainly they don't wish to save energy when making food, because people who don't replicate their food are considered extremely rare luddites or hobbyists whenever the issue arises. (And this for people who don't live aboard starships that have fantastically powerful warp cores and whatnot.)

As for the "every replicated meal tastes the same" thing, that would depend exclusively on how the information is packaged. Is it trivially easy to make every replicated meal subtly different? It ought to be - except if the "recipe" is somehow packaged to save data storage space, and opening the package is too computing-intensive to justify randomly changing the recipe by 0.000000001% for consumer satisfaction.

But data storage space is another thing the future heroes never worry about. Only handheld instruments, androids or Genesis devices may max out: a starship has a practically infinite capacity for holding information, either thanks to having infinitely powerful memory devices aboard, or tying into a Federation-wide or possibly galaxy-wide network of data storage.

Our heroes saving energy or saving data storage space is akin to us today saving breathing air. It just plain isn't a factor except in very rare emergencies.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Orphalesion]

I really don't understand why people insist that Gault must farm its products for the benefit of some other world(s).
What profit would they trade their produce for in a society where money no longer exists?

Again there are hobby farmers today. What's so odd about the idea that a bunch of them band together and start their own pastoral colony. We never see Gault being a breadbasket for anyone. There's no indication that they have huge areas of their world covered in fields and work their backs off.
I admit there is no evidence for my interpretation either, but if you look at Star Trek it does seem plausible that it's just a bunch of people LARPing Hobbiton.
Or else they might just be a self-sustaining colony of people who want to live off the fruits of their own labour. A self-sustaining colony would need to e a farming settlement. "Doing things the hard way" has sometimes been shown to be a motivation behind the foundation of cultures.

 

[Timo]

I really don't understand why people insist that Gault must farm its products for the benefit of some other world(s).
What profit would they trade their produce for in a society where money no longer exists?

Why should the extinction of the concept of profit be grounds for not farming products for the benefit of others? Clearly, the world in general still works even though profit is dead and buried; X making food for X,Y and Z can still be part of that working.

(Indeed, early Christianity wasn't all that big on profit, even though it did agree that spitting on merchants might sometimes not be absolutely necessary. Doesn't mean early Christians stopped farming and selling - they just were told that they weren't allowed to make any profit out of it. Things have slipped since.)

"Doing things the hard way" has sometimes been shown to be a motivation behind the foundation of cultures.

Indeed, it's just about the only rationale we ever got for founding interstellar colonies. In Trek, you don't need a colony in order to mine the mineral resources of some dustball; a colony is a community existing for its own sake, and the ideology evident in the colony (and sometimes explicit in the founding of the colony) is that of the wholesomeness and rewarding qualifies of old-fashioned hard work.

Oh, there are the Mariposa technocrats. But their colony failed. And there are the traders of Deneva. But their colony died. And then there is the Masterpiece Society. But they had to abandon their evil ways in order to survive...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Orphalesion]

Why should the extinction of the concept of profit be grounds for not farming products for the benefit of others? Clearly, the world in general still works even though profit is dead and buried; X making food for X,Y and Z can still be part of that working.

(Indeed, early Christianity wasn't all that big on profit, even though it did agree that spitting on merchants might sometimes not be absolutely necessary. Doesn't mean early Christians stopped farming and selling - they just were told that they weren't allowed to make any profit out of it. Things have slipped since.)

Oh sorry I wasn't wording my thought clearly I think. I meant that peple on Gault being forced to farm for other planets in order to survive would no make much sense anymore.
What are the places Gault farms for gonna do if all of Gault suddenly decides they want to be landscape artists and turn their world into a planet-wide art piece? Threatening to send Lwaxana Troi to give them a stern talking to?
They can't keep them as farming slaves.

 

[Timo]

Yup. Yet I doubt the people would matter as such. Does property and ownership still exist? The land, if not all hoarded by the landscape artists, could be farmed by anybody, by remote, with suitable robotics...

One wonders... Is soil still the best way of doing agriculture? Or would it be more efficient to use technological means - say, instead of direct sunlight, a solar-powered thingamabob feeding optimal radiation into caverns where super-vegetables grow? Nature is usually fairly efficient, but nature isn't aiming at providing nutrition.

And is real food real, or just made to look like it? Supposedly, enslaving animals for food is eeeeevil in the 24th century (even though fishing appears to be okay). Perhaps all non-replicated food is actually soylent?

...Speaking of which, somebody either has a sense of humor, or then not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_%28drink%29

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Marsden]

I'll interject that wasn't a renegade Klingon looking down on Worf that pronounced Gault a "farming colony" That may have something to do with it, as in anyplace not making weapons or war materiel is just a farming colony to him.

 

[Leviathan]

It's Gold Farming. MMO's survived well in the 24th century....particularly after television died out around 2040.

 

[T'Girl]

Why in a future with replicators do we need farming colonies?

Why in a future with replicators do we need mining? Likely because it's cheaper to mine metals and deliver it (and to grow food), than to replicate it.

There is zero evidence that our future heroes would wish to save energy - zero dialogue references, zero instances of them choosing the energy-cheaper out of two options

Then why don't starships always travel at maximum warp, everywhere they go. If it gobbles up antimatter faster so what, if it burns out the engines faster so what? I think there is a economy of energy use on display.

What profit would they trade their produce for in a society where money no longer exists?

Because there is money.

 

[Dexter Remmick]

I'll interject that wasn't a renegade Klingon looking down on Worf that pronounced Gault a "farming colony" That may have something to do with it, as in anyplace not making weapons or war materiel is just a farming colony to him.

That's how I always took the remark. That or, "that's just what humans do isn't it?" type of thing.

 

[IrishNero]

Just like today, there will probably always be people who prefer things in their natural state. I would imagine that farming would cater to those who still want the sweet flavor of a ripe home-grown tomato over a replicated 'mater. As for me, I'm all about the microwave, so give me my replicator already!

 

[Orphalesion]

I'll interject that wasn't a renegade Klingon looking down on Worf that pronounced Gault a "farming colony" That may have something to do with it, as in anyplace not making weapons or war materiel is just a farming colony to him.

That's how I always took the remark. That or, "that's just what humans do isn't it?" type of thing.

That makes sense. To the Klingon it would be like "the people of Gault are not warrirors=they are lowly peasants!"

As for me, I'm all about the microwave, so give me my replicator already!

Oh man, same here. No more standing in the kitchen, no more doing dishes (they just get reprocessed into "energy") I could get so done so much more in the day if all I had to do was shout "baked salmon, hot!" at a console. Though personally I think I'd go the Selena Gomez route and actually say "please" and "thank you" to the thing.

 

[Timo]

Just to nitpick, Worf himself says he comes from the "farmworld" of Gault in DS9 "Let He Who Is Without Sin".

Also, in TNG "We'll Always Have Paris", Riker makes mention of the "farming colony" of Coltar IV. So it's not just a Klingon pejorative, but valid Federation terminology as well.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Orphalesion]

^ Well so much for that theory then...

 

[Timo]

Or then Riker is equally unimpressed by the concept of people flying to distant stars in order to plant turnips.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Starborn Dragon]

So what happens when a replicator becomes unusable in some way?

They are an electronics technology, and electronics can't last forever.

Technology needs maintenance too, you know.

It's better to ahve it and not need it then need it and not have it.

 

[Timo]

The fun thing about replicators is that they allow "logistics" to be removed from the dictionary.

Need maintenance? The replicator can do it to itself! Spares? Just press the button. Not enough replicators? Replicate some more!

The only way to cause serious problems to a replicator-equipped settlement, military unit, city, culture or whatever would be to take down all of their capacity at once. How to do that? Some sort of a futuristic equivalent of EMP (against the classic form of which futuro-tech could easily be proofed)? Failing that, you'd have to take a bat'leth against each and every single replicator and hack it to dysfunctional pieces.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ithekro]

A planet seems to be able to do a lot with just one or two Industrial Replicators a evidanced with what the Federation provided Bajor and Cardassia.