"The farming colony Gault"
- Thread starter MikeS
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The world upon which Worf was raised.
Why in a future with replicators do we need farming colonies?
It does seem strange, but maybe the replicator process doesn't work that well on a large scale? Maybe natural products are more energy efficient, although with their seemingly limitless energy it makes you wonder why that would even be a problem.
I could be just like Ithekro said, some people don't like processed foods.
The world upon which Worf was raised.
Why in a future with replicators do we need farming colonies?
There could still be lots of people out there, think of Picard's brother's family, who prefer to eat real food. Though money doesn't exist in the future it could also be there's still a resource issue and operating a replicator to make food to feed a civilization of countless billions of people may not be entirely practical. On a starship with a thousand people on board where space is at a premium and with long delays between resupply or food sources? Yeah, replicators are a practical way to keep people fed.
On a planet with billions of people to feed? Replicators may not be entirely practical or a good use of energy reserves.
We've also heard on TNG plenty of times of people griping about the replicator not doing food justice. Which makes sense, it's the exact. Same. Meal. Every time you order it. Precisely. To the molecule. The replicator doesn't account for flair or a chef's twist, or the occasional extra dash of salt or putting slightly too much of one ingredient in, or slightly too less. All things that can make a meal taste different each time you make it.
Replicators are neat, but a boring way to have every meal you eat and not a great way to feed countless billions of people.
All the replicator needs at the very least is energy to convert into matter. At the very most some base molecules to store as energy, convert to matter, and combine with other molecules to form foods. It's not like it's "storing" tons of lettuce as energy somewhere so tons of lettuce needs to be grown. That idea sort of "violates" the very idea and point of the replicator. All it needs are molecules to form things out of, molecular conversion is less energy intensive than quantum conversion. Have all of the major elements that food is made out of stored as energy and you can form any food you want. No growing of food required.
It would seem easier to use a food item for your energy than dirt or a passing plasma stream. It may be just energy. But the old though was to have reserve of matter to convert to energy that is reprocessed into "food". If the transporter is part of the process, than using the orignal product might make the process easier (less energy intensive). But that's just me. Not entirely logical.
It's unclear whether replicated food actually tastes like the real thing.
It does seem like if you're a farmer it's because you chose to be.
It does seem like if you're a farmer it's because you chose to be.
The world upon which Worf was raised.
Why in a future with replicators do we need farming colonies?
Large scale monoculture is more efficient at producing food than replicators.
Inquiry. Do we know with certainty that by ``farming colony'' we mean ``one in which agriculture is the primary focus''? Is it defensible that what is meant is a colony that is, essentially, a farm team for Federation worlds --- a place socially under-developed where people can learn to do the kinds of things that are needed back home, somewhere off where it's safe (for them, and for society) to screw up and learn better?
The way the Star Trek universe is presented it might be really the case of a bunch of people who just love farm labour banding together. Probably it's a sort of romanticized rural fantasy like Marie Antoinette had with her Hameau de la Reine. An Arcadia where they prance around playing shepherd and milkmaid.
There are people today who are "hobby farmers" who just tend to a few crops or animals because they love to work with the land without really making a profit with what they do.
And really, if humanity had enough land and the unlimited resources of the ST future, who says there wouldn't be many, many more of those hobby farmers. I do think that the high-tech lifestyle of the Federation would drive quite a few people back to "the roots"
Also the Rozhenkos definitely did not have a replicator; Helena reminisces how she learned to cook Klingon dishes for Worf "but never quite learned how to eat them."
Probably they were similar in mindset to Picard's brother.
But yes the idea that replicated food doesn't taste "real" is a thing that's brought up frequently. Personally I'd rather just tell a console what I want to eat than stand in the kitchen to get something that tasted "real".
I actually like the idea that the Federation meets the basic needs of its citizens for free but you still have to work to get nice things. I.e. real wine instead of synthehol or a penthouse apartment instead of a standard housing unit.
There are people today who are "hobby farmers" who just tend to a few crops or animals because they love to work with the land without really making a profit with what they do.
And really, if humanity had enough land and the unlimited resources of the ST future, who says there wouldn't be many, many more of those hobby farmers. I do think that the high-tech lifestyle of the Federation would drive quite a few people back to "the roots"
Also the Rozhenkos definitely did not have a replicator; Helena reminisces how she learned to cook Klingon dishes for Worf "but never quite learned how to eat them."
Probably they were similar in mindset to Picard's brother.
But yes the idea that replicated food doesn't taste "real" is a thing that's brought up frequently. Personally I'd rather just tell a console what I want to eat than stand in the kitchen to get something that tasted "real".
I actually like the idea that the Federation meets the basic needs of its citizens for free but you still have to work to get nice things. I.e. real wine instead of synthehol or a penthouse apartment instead of a standard housing unit.
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Yeah, it might be fields and fields of cubical farms of people doing LCARS tech-support for the whole galaxy!
I do that now for lunch. I throw a hot pocket in the microwave and what comes out tastes almost like real food.
Back in ST2:TWoK, there (still?) were problems with food supply in the Federation: Carol Marcus' solution was to create new fertile worlds. This presupposes that there would be logistics for hauling food from Genesis-created farming planets to the planets in need.
The "solution" would be no solution at all unless those logistics were plausible - basically meaning they already existed in at least some form and extent. We have seen nothing of the sort in the episodes and movies, though, all the transport ships being midgets that couldn't feed a small town even if making daily trips to a farm in the next star system. Even the robot ships hauling grain in TAS were tiny, supposedly moving superior genetic material rather than grain intended for consumption at the destination.
Naturally, Genesis could also create "farming worlds" within mere interplanetary distances of the worlds in need. Say, Luna could be turned to a big farm to feed Earth. But the logistics issues would still be significant, especially if transporters cannot reach all the way from Luna to Earth (although we have heard of emergency bailout transporters covering distances of that sort, in TNG "First Duty").
Personally, I think Marcus was selling snake oil and Genesis would have satisfied intellectual rather than physical hunger. But if Genesis was feasible for feeding starving worlds in the 23rd century, then Gault could be a breadbasket planet, too. Although again my personal interpretation is that Gault is a rural world, just like 97.6% of the colonies we ever see (setting it aside from colonies that actually have industries and produce exportable goods), rather than a world with significant farming exports.
Timo Saloniemi
The "solution" would be no solution at all unless those logistics were plausible - basically meaning they already existed in at least some form and extent. We have seen nothing of the sort in the episodes and movies, though, all the transport ships being midgets that couldn't feed a small town even if making daily trips to a farm in the next star system. Even the robot ships hauling grain in TAS were tiny, supposedly moving superior genetic material rather than grain intended for consumption at the destination.
Naturally, Genesis could also create "farming worlds" within mere interplanetary distances of the worlds in need. Say, Luna could be turned to a big farm to feed Earth. But the logistics issues would still be significant, especially if transporters cannot reach all the way from Luna to Earth (although we have heard of emergency bailout transporters covering distances of that sort, in TNG "First Duty").
Personally, I think Marcus was selling snake oil and Genesis would have satisfied intellectual rather than physical hunger. But if Genesis was feasible for feeding starving worlds in the 23rd century, then Gault could be a breadbasket planet, too. Although again my personal interpretation is that Gault is a rural world, just like 97.6% of the colonies we ever see (setting it aside from colonies that actually have industries and produce exportable goods), rather than a world with significant farming exports.
Timo Saloniemi
we know there are things that can't be replicated, latinum from example. Maybe there are essential amino acids or enzymes or something that can't be replicated so foods containing them are grown and the nutrient is stored in bulk and the replicator inserts some of it into the final replicated meal
although it's probably just to handle the wants of people that prefer real food or to save energy usage for replicating stuff you can't create through nature
although it's probably just to handle the wants of people that prefer real food or to save energy usage for replicating stuff you can't create through nature
I'm not sure why it is assumed replicators are the most efficient way of producing everything. It strikes me as a very energy intensive process and we have no idea how much energy is wasted doing it i.e. energy that is not directly converted to matter. Replicating massive quantities of food may not actually be feasible. Despite having far less scarcity than we have today, I think there is plenty of evidence that energy is not unlimited in the 24th century and almost certainly not in the 23rd.
The economy of Star Trek never seems to have been really thought out but the very existence of construction facilities, farms and mining activity always indicated to me that replicators can not create many, many things or that the energy to used to replicate them is much more than doing it the old fashioned way.
The economy of Star Trek never seems to have been really thought out but the very existence of construction facilities, farms and mining activity always indicated to me that replicators can not create many, many things or that the energy to used to replicate them is much more than doing it the old fashioned way.
Maybe Gault supplies goods and foodstuffs to other colonies whose inhabitants choose not to use replicators.
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