I meant he left his family on Earth, his sister, etc, to plan Joseph's funeral instead of being a part of that himself. That was another thing that felt out of character to me. Sisko's strong relationship with his father, seeing the restaurant as a refuge, was well established on the show. And there had been nothing in the literature even to suggest that had changed, until Rough Beasts.
The Fall of Ben Sisko
- Thread starter Min Zife
- Start date
I meant he left his family on Earth, his sister, etc, to plan Joseph's funeral instead of being a part of that himself. That was another thing that felt out of character to me. Sisko's strong relationship with his father, seeing the restaurant as a refuge, was well established on the show. And there had been nothing in the literature even to suggest that had changed, until Rough Beasts.
Haven't read it yet, but the book has many fans, and its author has a fine reputation, so I find it very hard to believe that your statement is true.
Marco Palmieri once said, on this BBS, that the best Star Trek novels polarize the audience and obviously this is one of them.
Having just gone through the parent-loss grieving process twice in eighteen months, and seeing friends cope with same, I can tell you that grief is never so cut-and-dried. "Out of character" is often the norm.
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Why is it relevant Vaughn was in Starfleet longer? Being longer does not necessarily make u a better military plenty of examples of younger less experienced generals and military leaders stepping up and pwning others with more experiencing. What has Vaughn done that compares to Sisko speaheading the Dominion War which after the Borg Invasion is the second largest battle in at least recent federation history.
Interesting Information, Edit XYZ
Not sure how good O'Brain is but seeing as Picard could big whoever he wants I am sure La Forge is one of the best they got. Although problem with LaForge is more he never gets laid which enters into some annoying stereotypes. Problem for another time.
As for the Information he had from the Prophets especially interesting.
On the Borg Battle, agreed not the level u expect for TV Level Sisko. Really Poor for someone who is suppose to be a top tier commander. I mean I could see Picard getting in the way but Sisko never had a problem making the hard choices like that. I mean he did assassinate a prominent Romulan Senator to win the Dominion War.
Interesting Information, Edit XYZ
Not sure how good O'Brain is but seeing as Picard could big whoever he wants I am sure La Forge is one of the best they got. Although problem with LaForge is more he never gets laid which enters into some annoying stereotypes. Problem for another time.
As for the Information he had from the Prophets especially interesting.
On the Borg Battle, agreed not the level u expect for TV Level Sisko. Really Poor for someone who is suppose to be a top tier commander. I mean I could see Picard getting in the way but Sisko never had a problem making the hard choices like that. I mean he did assassinate a prominent Romulan Senator to win the Dominion War.
Well that's wrong from the start. Sisko did no such thing. Garak did that without Sisko's knowledge. Sisko was prepared to face the music once the fake datarod was discovered - it was only after the fact that Sisko decided not to make Garak's assassination of Vreenak public.
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Judging by the passage, it sounds very much as if Sisko is speaking from the perspective of someone who believes that the Prophets' experience of the world is ultimately a truthful one, this belief reinforced by the time he spent within the Celestial Temple sharing in the Prophets' sense of time. Sisko really did believe that, if he stayed with Kasidy, the people he loved would die prematurely.
Vaughn, as an experienced Starfleet officer who was familiar with starship combat, served alongside Sisko. They served jointly, along with a third captain. Were all three captains so incapable as to come up with a plan for engaging the Borg that was so flawed?
And, as Hollow Men describes, only with the consent of Starfleet Command every step of the way. They approved the initial deception of Vreenak, and gave retroactive consent/acknowledgement when Sisko told them what happened. Sisko did not go into the affair thinking he'd kill a Romulan senator and blame it on the Dominion.
Garak basically tells Sisko that he knew exactly how Garak was planning to get the job done. Sisko knows Garak's history so Garak doing an assassination should hardly come as a surprise. Rewatch the Episode. Still a Hard Choice.
As for that passage. Look at that line of "I was not induated with sorrow" seems to lend more to him being a douche.
As I said Vaughn's experience is irrelevant. What is in his history that compares to spearheading until the Borg Invasion, the largest Federation War in at least Recent History?
Were they a representative sample? Is every engineer in Starfleet designing a new class of starships? Or is this a task more likely limited to the most talented few?
Six cubes versus three Federation starships, each individually much less powerful than a cube save for their transphasic torpedoes, is not a fair fight. Even three cubes versus two Federation starships isn't fair, especially when the transphasic warheads have been adapted to.
1. The Borg cube that collided with the nacelles of the Kirk resumed firing a few moments after the collision.
2. More importantly, Sisko gave the orders to block the cube's bombardment of Alonis at a time when the New York had only a single transphasic warhead available while the ship's shields were still strong. Preventing the Borg cube in question from bombarding the city while engaging it wasn't a bad strategy, and did let the Kirk destroy the that Borg cube. Conceivably, if the Borg hadn't adapted to transphasic warheads at that point the Kirk and the Cutlass might have been able to destroy the remaining two Borg cubes. I can't fault his tactics.
Alonis will survive (minus one city).
Sisko prioritized saving a city for all of ~10 minutes to saving the rest of an entire world - Alonis. Which is a HUGE strategical mistake.
Actually, no. Sisko's decisions were based on his first-hand knowledge of the Prophets, their sense of time, and its accuracy, his previous belief in the Prophets' accuracy confirmed.
Taking a look at the script for the episode in question and watching the episode, it did. Sisko was so angry that he went down to Garak's shop and started to beat the man up. Later, he did calm down--"Sisko glares at him, but it's clear that he sees the logic of what Garak's saying, as much as he doesn't like to hear it", says the directions--but it was still very hard.
Sisko did not go into the affair expecting to assassinate, among other people, a Romulan senator. He probably should have expected Garak to have been capable of doing that, but created forged documents was as far as he was planning.
No one is saying that Sisko handled it well. What the passage also suggests is that Sisko came to believe that, if he stayed with Kasidy and Rebecca on Bajor, they would die prematurely. Talk of indundations of sorrow did not refer to married life being a drag, or anything like that; looking in context, he was talking about losing his loved ones to death.
Is Vaughn, a fellow captain of broad and significantly longer experience, the sort of captain who'd consent to a bad plan to engage the Borg at Alonis? If we want to saw that Vaughn is incompetent, too, along with the captain of the Cutlass, and all of the subordinates of the three captains, we should say so. Blaming the failure to destroy all six of the Borg cubes on Sisko performing below par doesn't strike me as realistic.
Sadly, it's all too common among African-Americans that the women end up as single mothers for whatever reason. Avery Brooks objected to Sisko dying for this very reason. The script was changed to allow the possibility of his return. The authors are just following through on the initial ending of DS9 in a way.
No, he's not.
As for Janeway...
*runs for cover*
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As for Janeway...
*runs for cover*
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I wish all the "to resurrect or not to resurrect" talk were dead.
Only his spine.
I agree. Of course, reactivating is another matter.
I'm surprised you didn't mention Kassidy's gaol time.
It's hard to portray a saga's fictional characters thwarting (ongoing) adversity if they not only have a happy ending, but a carefree life and career.
We've seen other character spend time in jail. It was based on their actions, real or perceived. Kassidy going to jail was a logical result of her actions. It also helped us know what kind of person she is, what she believes in.
We, in canon, have seen one married Captain as a major recurring character. He also happened to be African-American. Sadly, there is historical and cultural reasons to treat their actions with a bit more of a cautious eye. Having an African American man leave his wife is, unfortunately all too common. I can understand where Avery Brooks apprehension of the initial fate of Ben Sisko came from. Brooks never portrayed Sisko and lacking in adversity to overcome. On the contrary, he was one of the most complex, interesting and deep characters ever to be on Trek. He simply felt that leaving a woman as a single mother was an all too common occurrence and wanted to see his character portrayed in a more positive light in this case.
We, in canon, have seen one married Captain as a major recurring character. He also happened to be African-American. Sadly, there is historical and cultural reasons to treat their actions with a bit more of a cautious eye. Having an African American man leave his wife is, unfortunately all too common. I can understand where Avery Brooks apprehension of the initial fate of Ben Sisko came from. Brooks never portrayed Sisko and lacking in adversity to overcome. On the contrary, he was one of the most complex, interesting and deep characters ever to be on Trek. He simply felt that leaving a woman as a single mother was an all too common occurrence and wanted to see his character portrayed in a more positive light in this case.
I'm not a fan of fiction that feels the need to treat its characters with kid gloves lest the writers be perceived as catering to some sort of stereotype.
Granted DS9 went a little overboard with the "Gays only exist in the Mirror Universe!" cliche, but there's a huge difference between a single incident involving one character and multiple incidents with multiple characters.
IMO if you really feel that the writing of Sisko is catering to a stereotype you're not giving the writers enough credit.
Granted DS9 went a little overboard with the "Gays only exist in the Mirror Universe!" cliche, but there's a huge difference between a single incident involving one character and multiple incidents with multiple characters.
IMO if you really feel that the writing of Sisko is catering to a stereotype you're not giving the writers enough credit.
He also got married in the 18th episode of the seventh season! So he barely made it as the "one married captain" in canon.
I would say that happy marriages in any ongoing television saga are a rarity, even for white people. Look at "Rhoda", an oft-quoted yardstick: audiences dropped off rapidly when she was happily married to Joe, despite the ratings for the wedding being so huge. So she had to divorce him - and the audiences returned.
Doug and Julie on "Days of Our Lives" were split up several times, even though the actors were married in real life.
Huh?
Just because homosexuals were only shown in the mirror universe doesn't mean they only exist there.
Jadzia was shown attracted to a former host's spouse. The scenes with the 2 of them showed a lesbian attraction. I understand Garak may have also been bisexual.
With some mirror characters being gay, I would say this could be a bad depiction since biologically the doubles are the same person, therefore you would expect them to have the same sexual orientation.
