The E-D was built on the ground, don't see why The 1701 couldn't

[RAMA]

Assuming we take those images as canon, there is still plenty of reason to figure the early one was built in orbit.

For one thing, Mars gravity is a shitload less than earth.

24th century tech seems way more advanced than 23rd, so they've probably got new systems in addition to old ones like spacedock.

Plenty of stuff from GR and others indicate that when they were talking about this pre-TMP, that the SF yards were in geosync orbit ABOVE SF, not in the city itself.

Everybody will have 2000 ways to tear all this apart, but I wanted to get on-record and get out before the bombs start falling.

We don't have to assume anything, they appeared in the episode of STNG:

 

[Sector 7]

I may have to take back my above comment...

I've done some checking, and something's come to light.


"Warp plasma's comin' out of the oven right now!"

That is soooo cute! Someone should put a sombrero on him...

 

[M'Sharak]

And *what if* the E was built by elves?

I thought elves had left the building.

Those are their footprints right there?
*stomp* *stomp*

 

[trevanian]

Assuming we take those images as canon, there is still plenty of reason to figure the early one was built in orbit.

For one thing, Mars gravity is a shitload less than earth.

24th century tech seems way more advanced than 23rd, so they've probably got new systems in addition to old ones like spacedock.

Plenty of stuff from GR and others indicate that when they were talking about this pre-TMP, that the SF yards were in geosync orbit ABOVE SF, not in the city itself.

Everybody will have 2000 ways to tear all this apart, but I wanted to get on-record and get out before the bombs start falling.

We don't have to assume anything, they appeared in the episode of STNG:

As I said, if we assume ...

Just cuz it is onscreen in a tiny monitor display doesn't mean jack. Or do you assume that phaser speed is variable, since we see them INCHing their way out of the guns in the first season parasite episode? Continuity errors aren't limited to TOS pre-r, y'know, or maybe you should watch DARMOK again. And as far as that goes, how about VOYAGER with 'no turn while in warp?' which invalidates years of TOS and the whole vger intercept in TMP? onscreen means nothing in that instance

 

[Psion]

I thought those structures on the surface of Mars was just a systems testing facility, not the components of an actual starship.

 

[Bill Morris]

Another dumb question: How can welding be effective on a hull designed to withstand some level of phaser fire and disruptor blasts??

[duh]nose-picking smiley[/duh]

 

[Captain X]

Why does anyone still care? This isn't TOS, this is a "re-imagining", or a "re-invigorating", or whatever "re-" word TPTB are using these days. Does it really matter at this point?

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Another dumb question: How can welding be effective on a hull designed to withstand some level of phaser fire and disruptor blasts??

[duh]nose-picking smiley[/duh]

Ok, even if the ship being built on Earth is considered canon by TPTB, i remember them saying that the welders were an artistic choice, going so far as to give them some old-school gear. So that could be basically interpreted in such a fashion.

 

[ancient]

It doesn't matter. There's no reason it has to be built in space or the ground. Orci has suggested that building it on the ground is good because technobabble said so. So now the future is sealed.

Let's get back to the important issues. Will the elves that build the ship have ridges?

 

[trevanian]

Let's get back to the important issues. Will the elves that build the ship have ridges?

Only if somebody drops a tab of acid in Abrams' coffee, causing him to bring back Berman & Westmore.

 

[John Picard]

Another dumb question: How can welding be effective on a hull designed to withstand some level of phaser fire and disruptor blasts??

[duh]nose-picking smiley[/duh]

That's what the Structural Integrity Field is for.

 

[Bill Morris]

Another dumb question: How can welding be effective on a hull designed to withstand some level of phaser fire and disruptor blasts??

[duh]nose-picking smiley[/duh]

That's what the Structural Integrity Field is for.

Shields, too. And when they're down, you depend on a hull made of tritanium, not something put together with a welding torch. The welding gag was an excuse to show sparks, an effective marketing thing, as well to grab the attention of those who find welders sexy--another marketing thing.

I rest my sombrero.

 

[John Picard]

Another dumb question: How can welding be effective on a hull designed to withstand some level of phaser fire and disruptor blasts??

[duh]nose-picking smiley[/duh]

That's what the Structural Integrity Field is for.

Shields, too. And when they're down, you depend on a hull made of tritanium, not something put together with a welding torch. The welding gag was an excuse to show sparks, an effective marketing thing, as well to grab the attention of those who find welders sexy--another marketing thing.

I rest my sombrero.

So, are Tritanium pieces and parts glued or riveted together?

 

[Bill Morris]

That's what the Structural Integrity Field is for.

Shields, too. And when they're down, you depend on a hull made of tritanium, not something put together with a welding torch. The welding gag was an excuse to show sparks, an effective marketing thing, as well to grab the attention of those who find welders sexy--another marketing thing.

I rest my sombrero.

So, are Tritanium pieces and parts glued or riveted together?

Neither. This was covered clearly in Minefield, the third episode of season 2 of ENT, when Archer removed a section of hull by hand from the outside after releasing the lockdown mechanisms that held that section in place.

 

[John Picard]

Shields, too. And when they're down, you depend on a hull made of tritanium, not something put together with a welding torch. The welding gag was an excuse to show sparks, an effective marketing thing, as well to grab the attention of those who find welders sexy--another marketing thing.

I rest my sombrero.

So, are Tritanium pieces and parts glued or riveted together?

Neither. This was covered clearly in Minefield, the third episode of season 2 of ENT, when Archer removed a section of hull by hand from the outside after releasing the lockdown mechanisms that held that section in place.

So it's a snap-together model?

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Assuming we take those images as canon, there is still plenty of reason to figure the early one was built in orbit.

For one thing, Mars gravity is a shitload less than earth.

24th century tech seems way more advanced than 23rd, so they've probably got new systems in addition to old ones like spacedock.

Perhaps Rick Sternbach and/or Mike Okuda could drop by and tell us what their intentions were concerning the design of Utopia Planitia's surface complex?

Plenty of stuff from GR and others indicate that when they were talking about this pre-TMP, that the SF yards were in geosync orbit ABOVE SF, not in the city itself.

San Francisco is located approximately 38 degrees north of the equator, and a geosynchronous - or more correctly, geostationary - orbit is confined to the equatorial plane (see Wiki article). In any event, a facility located ~36,000 kilometers above the Earth's surface would be exposed to a much higher level of particulate radiation events associated with solar flares and galactic cosmic rays than one deployed into a lower orbit within the planetary magnetosphere. Regarding the location of ST:TMP's drydock and space office complex, I will quote the following from the German-language edition of Gene Roddenberry's novelization (which, incidently, confirmed that the SF Yards are indeed orbital), translated by the film's technical advisor, Jesco von Puttkamer:

"Hoch über der Erde, in einer Umlaufbahn von 1680 Kilometer Höhe und mit einer Bahnneigung von 46 Grad, umkreiste das riesige Raumdock den blauen Planeten einmal in zwei Stunden. Dreimal täglich geriet es in Sicht des Starfleet-Hauptquartiers von San Francisco."

An altitude of 1680 kilometers is high enough to render upper atmosphere drag a non-issue while also being sufficiently low to avoid most of the high-energy protons trapped within the Inner Van Allen Radiation Belt, although with a 46 degree orbital inclination they would periodically traverse the South Atlantic Anomaly (or whatever it will be called in the late 23rd century).

It doesn't matter. There's no reason it has to be built in space or the ground. Orci has suggested that building it on the ground is good because technobabble said so.

Link pliz?

TGT

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

It's simple...

...since there is no on-screen canon that says where it was built, then wherever AbramsTrek shows it being built (IF they show it being built) will become canon and will contradict nothing.

The only times we saw a ship being built in spacedock was on the NX-02 Columbia on ENT. The only time we saw a ship being built on the ground was a Galaxy-class ship. We never saw -- nor were told about -- how the NCC-1701 or any other Constitution-class ship was built.

Frankly, we never even saw where the TMP refit was done -- we only saw the ship in spacedock AFTER the refit. (i'm not suggesting the re-fit was done on the ground -- I'm just saying it wasn't necessarily done in that spacedock.)

Trevanian's points on the gravity of Earth being a hinderence to getting the ship off the ground makes practical sense, but so what? -- when has "making practical sense" been a prerequisite for some idea to be included as part Star Trek canon.

 

[ancient]

Link pliz?

I was making a joke about Orci's comment, which went something like: They may need to adjust the engine balance and the easiest way is in a gravity well.

Really, any technobabble answer will do.

The future must comply with canon.

 

[trevanian]

imately 38 degrees north of the equator, and a geosynchronous - or more correctly, geostationary - orbit is confined to the equatorial plane (see Wiki article). In any event, a facility located ~36,000 kilometers above the Earth's surface would be exposed to a much higher level of particulate radiation events associated with solar flares and galactic cosmic rays than one deployed into a lower orbit within the planetary magnetosphere. Regarding the location of ST:TMP's drydock and space office complex, I will quote the following from the German-language edition of Gene Roddenberry's novelization (which, incidently, confirmed that the SF Yards are indeed orbital), translated by the film's technical advisor, Jesco von Puttkamer:

"Hoch über der Erde, in einer Umlaufbahn von 1680 Kilometer Höhe und mit einer Bahnneigung von 46 Grad, umkreiste das riesige Raumdock den blauen Planeten einmal in zwei Stunden. Dreimal täglich geriet es in Sicht des Starfleet-Hauptquartiers von San Francisco."

It doesn't matter. There's no reason it has to be built in space or the ground. Orci has suggested that building it on the ground is good because technobabble said so.

Link pliz?

TGT

Rarely if ever have I been so pleased to be corrected (and thank you for confirming that it was orbital, not groundside.)

As for the Orci thing, there was a Q&A trekmovie a long time ago where the writers said the warp engines had to be tested in a gravity well in order to be calibrated. Sounded like a whole lotta hogwash to me, a non sequitur, but nomadder, I'm sure you can demolish it very easily.

 

[M'Sharak]

The Q&A thing in question, excerpted from here:

TrekMovie.com: I have to ask…is the trailer actually going to be part of the movie itself?
Roberto Orci: No comment [laughs]
TrekMovie.com: Is that a new recording of Nimoy’s voice?
Roberto Orci: Yes. He recorded that on set just between takes.
TrekMovie.com: How many takes did it take to get it?
Roberto Orci: Not very many [laughs]
TrekMovie.com: Did you guys realize that when you set the construction of the USS Enterprise on Earth that it would spark controversy?
Roberto Orci: Of course.
TrekMovie.com: So what is your guys logic for setting it on land?
Roberto Orci: Besides the thematic stuff we discussed, which is to connect it to today and make it clear. Firstly, there is the notion that there is precedent in the novels, etc that components of the ship can be built on Earth and assembled here or there. And the second thing is that the Enterprise is not some flimsy yacht that has to be delicately treated and assembled. The idea that things have to be assembled in space has normally been associated with things that don’t have to be in any kind of pressure situation and don’t ever have to ever enter a gravity well. That is not the case with the Enterprise. The Enterprise actually has to sustain warp, which we know is not actually moving but more a warping of space around it. And we know that its decks essentially simulate Earth gravity and so its not the kind of gravity created by centrifugal force, it is not artificially created by spinning it. It is created by an artificial field and so it is very natural, instead of having to create a fake field in which you are going to have to calibrate everything, to just do it in the exact gravity well in which you are going to be simulating. And the final thing, in order to properly balance warp nacelles, they must be created in a gravity well.
TrekMovie.com: Where did that come from?
Roberto Orci: That comes from our creative license. No one can tell me that it is not possible that in order to create properly balanced warp nacelles they have to be constructed in a gravity well.