The Discovery "IF" Thread

[Dryson]

This thread is about "What If's" in Discovery. Seeing as how Discovery did not effect the TOS timeline, then the original timeline from TOS to the Burn took place within the normal temporal constructs of the TOS timeline.

Therefore it could be possible that threat forces, such as the Orion's or the Eggplants, combo of Andorian and Orion women, in the Discovery timeline could use Borg technology to travel into the past to try and steal the Discovery before she jumps into the future.

Although the Orion's wouldn't know the location of Starfleet in the future, the Orion's would still have the Discovery and the Spore Drive.

What are some "IF's" that come to mind?

Two more "What If's" involve the Klingons and Kelpiens, of whom, both showed up to defend the Discovery against Control as she made her way into the future after supposedly destroying Red Angel.

So as we know it, all knowledge of the Discovery was recorded as having been destroyed and the event scrubbed from Star Fleet data banks. But in typical manner the unscrupulous nature of those wanting power will have recorded the event as it happened or deciphered the actual that took place from bed side stories told to them by elders or around the table, ablaze with a fire in the center.

 

[Jellico]

What if the creators are not finished with the TOS timeline and Discovery is, despite efforts, some how, eventually, followed into their new future? I’m not sure I’d like to see that, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it happens.

 

[FederationHistorian]

What if, when Discovery enters Klingon space, they have to deal with 32nd century version of T’Kuvma and L’Rell?

What if Osyraa exists because Pike, Una & Spock let an ancestor of her’s go/saved Osyraa's ancestor from the death penalty, allowing for the lineage to continue? And the Federation of the 32nd century has been dealing with the consequences of that decision.

What if the Discovery crew will have to require assistance from a hologram of Will Riker…or Tom Riker?

What if the Andorians (like Ryn) of the 32nd are actually part Romulan, due to their uniquely defined ridges?

What if there is more than meets the eye to Ni’Var? And it relates to the theory of the 32nd century Federation actually being the bad guys.

What if Daniels is alive and well in the 32nd century, and created Discovery’s journey on purpose as a way to break out of temporal prison?

What if the crew encounters the Nexus?

 

[Jellico]

Well, I’d certainly like to see Tom Riker again, even though it’s the wrong century. What ever happened to him? Did he go free after the Dominion War? Well, this is off topic. Sorry.

 

[Dryson]

IF, the Tholians hate when the timeline is altered or messed with, will the Tholians be a factor in Discovery when they learn of the Discovery, Red Angel and Burnham?

What if Daniels is alive and well in the 32nd century, and created Discovery’s journey on purpose as a way to break out of temporal prison?

Ya, where is Daniels by the way?

 

[dupersuper]

Well, I’d certainly like to see Tom Riker again, even though it’s the wrong century. What ever happened to him? Did he go free after the Dominion War? Well, this is off topic. Sorry.

He pops up in Imzadi 2 and Star Trek Online.

 

[StarMan]

What if Daniels is alive and well in the 32nd century, and created Discovery’s journey on purpose as a way to break out of temporal prison?

In my silly / bonkers prediction for how this season would end, I had the Guardian of Forever bring Archer thru to the 32nd Century to stop Discovery (Burnham, in particular) from triggering the beginning of the temporal war. When I initially wrote my drivel, I had it that Daniels had merged with the GoF - resulting in Carl. Reason? To escape the effects of the temporal war. When I couldn't make the logic work, I omitted Daniels.

But seriously, if we are going to stay bumming around in the 32nd Century, let's get some real world building happening. That's what I loved about DS9 and what I've missed in Trek for so long.

 

[Dryson]

In my silly / bonkers prediction for how this season would end, I had the Guardian of Forever bring Archer thru to the 32nd Century to stop Discovery (Burnham, in particular) from triggering the beginning of the temporal war. When I initially wrote my drivel, I had it that Daniels had merged with the GoF - resulting in Carl. Reason? To escape the effects of the temporal war. When I couldn't make the logic work, I omitted Daniels.

But seriously, if we are going to stay bumming around in the 32nd Century, let's get some real world building happening. That's what I loved about DS9 and what I've missed in Trek for so long.

With Osryaa dead and the Emerald Chain broken but not destroyed, a lot of future IF's now remain.

Orion's are notoriously pirates and with Su'Kal's planet being a wealth of dilithium crystals, who is going to emerge as the next threat to the Federations worldbuilding?

The Breen, the Orion, or will there be, new Federation based factions that will not want to give up their way of life to the thralls of the new Federation?

 

[Deks]

Ya, where is Daniels by the way?

He may have died in the Burn.
Daniels originated 900 years after 2151... so, roughly the year 3051... or just about 12 years before the Burn.

We also don't know how long Humans live in the 32nd century or if they may have developed technology for biological immortality since the 24th century.

If Humans still live up until about 150 years and there have been no further extensions to lifespans (which seems very unlikely), then its possible Daniels would have died just before 3188 (when Michael Burnham first reached the 32nd century) or would be in his final years on another Federation planet (or a planet that may have left the Federation since the Burn).
He appeared in his 20-ies (I think) by the time he showed up on Enterprise NX-01.

 

[Dryson]

He may have died in the Burn.
Daniels originated 900 years after 2151... so, roughly the year 3051... or just about 12 years before the Burn.

IF Daniels did die at the age of 12 due to the Burn, then events surrounding the Sulliban and Enterprise have dramatically changed and have thus altered the future timeline altogether, thus if Daniels died before the Burn, then perhaps Discovery going into the future never took place.

Or is Daniels someone else that needs saved now? The time line itself is getting pretty tangled at this point and is eventually going to suffer a severe and cataclysmic quantum snap if not an outright collapse, which could have been the plot the entire time by an unknown and very manipulative species from not even from this galaxy.

 

[Deks]

IF Daniels did die at the age of 12 due to the Burn, then events surrounding the Sulliban and Enterprise have dramatically changed and have thus altered the future timeline altogether, thus if Daniels died before the Burn, then perhaps Discovery going into the future never took place.

Or is Daniels someone else that needs saved now? The time line itself is getting pretty tangled at this point and is eventually going to suffer a severe and cataclysmic quantum snap if not an outright collapse, which could have been the plot the entire time by an unknown and very manipulative species from not even from this galaxy.

From what we know, Daniels appeared on the NX-01 in 2151 while he was in his mid/late 20-ies (I think). He was a full fledged adult (not a 12 year old - that we know anyway).
The Burn happened in 3064 (125 years before the year 3189)- and the Temporal Wars ended at about 3054 (about 10 years before the Burn - assuming the T.W. lasted another 3 years after Daniels first appeared on NX-01 - which more or less does track - but to be fair, with temporal technology, Daniels could have made all the trips to the mid 22nd century within just 1 year).

My point is that Daniels is not particularly relevant to Discovery, and without life extension technology, he might not have lived beyond the year 3175 (if human lifespans still maxed out at 150) - assuming of course he survived the Burn (and he easily might not have).

With the Temporal Accords in place and banning of Temporal technology, I doubt he'd be a temporal agent anymore... at least not one that travels through time. He'd likely be long retired or worked elsewhere if he's still alive and vibrantly young (with life extension tech in place).

 

[Dryson]

From what we know, Daniels appeared on the NX-01 in 2151 while he was in his mid/late 20-ies (I think). He was a full fledged adult (not a 12 year old - that we know anyway).
The Burn happened in 3064 (125 years before the year 3189)- and the Temporal Wars ended at about 3054 (about 10 years before the Burn - assuming the T.W. lasted another 3 years after Daniels first appeared on NX-01 - which more or less does track - but to be fair, with temporal technology, Daniels could have made all the trips to the mid 22nd century within just 1 year).

My point is that Daniels is not particularly relevant to Discovery, and without life extension technology, he might not have lived beyond the year 3175 (if human lifespans still maxed out at 150) - assuming of course he survived the Burn (and he easily might not have).

With the Temporal Accords in place and banning of Temporal technology, I doubt he'd be a temporal agent anymore... at least not one that travels through time. He'd likely be long retired or worked elsewhere if he's still alive and vibrantly young (with life extension tech in place).

Twenty-years old is nothing close to being a full fledged adult. Twenty-year old's are still fresh out of High School and really have no idea about anything, even though they think that they do.

Temporal Agents seem to jump into the past to effect the future. I have never seen a T.A. jump into the future to effect the past. Burnham and the Discovery would be the first known incident of a ship jumping into the future to the avoid the present.

Are the Kelpien's Temporal Agents?

The question is, since the Discovery jumped into the future to keep the ship from falling into the hands of Control, did that action cause events to be changed in the past, events that would center around the Kelpien's assisting the Discovery that led to Sa'kul being left on the dilithium planet?

Have the Kelpien's been conducting genetic experiments with their DNA and dilithium, hoping that one day a genetic mutation would cause all ships using dilithium to blow up and basically return Kaminar to isolated world?

We don't know what happened to the Kelpien's between the fight with Control and when the Discovery rescues Sa'Kul. All we know is that Sa'Kul is alive and is the second most sought after entity in the galaxy right behind the Spore Drive.

Just imagine if the Orion's or Romulans are able to get their hands on Sa'Kul and are able to turn him into a weapon.

 

[Deks]

Twenty-years old is nothing close to being a full fledged adult. Twenty-year old's are still fresh out of High School and really have no idea about anything, even though they think that they do

Technically, Humans finish maturing around 18-19 years of age... and with education in the Federation (all time periods), you'd get full fledged adults (you can't inject real life examples here because in real life, our education and socio-economic systems are a wreck - compared to Trek Federation that is).

Besides, I did say Daniels appeared to be physically in his 20-ies... could have been late 20-ies easily enough (and it probably was).
This is the same guy who told Archer he was building temporal technology in High School.

Temporal Agents seem to jump into the past to effect the future. I have never seen a T.A. jump into the future to effect the past. Burnham and the Discovery would be the first known incident of a ship jumping into the future to the avoid the present.

Not sure how this is relevant to Daniels.
Why would he be jumping to the future to avoid the present? He told Archer that the Temporal Wars came to an end at the beginning of Season 4 of Enterprise, so it stands to reason he returned to his own time.

Are the Kelpien's Temporal Agents?

Possibly. Its likely that some may have been recruited to fight and preserve the Temporal Accords.

The question is, since the Discovery jumped into the future to keep the ship from falling into the hands of Control, did that action cause events to be changed in the past, events that would center around the Kelpien's assisting the Discovery that led to Sa'kul being left on the dilithium planet?

I think Discovery jumping to the future was always supposed to happen. Its probably part of the Prime Universe histroy.

Have the Kelpien's been conducting genetic experiments with their DNA and dilithium, hoping that one day a genetic mutation would cause all ships using dilithium to blow up and basically return Kaminar to isolated world?

Unlikely. Kaminar joined the Federation at some point, so, it is unlikely the Kelpiens would be experimenting with their DNA because of the limits on genetic experimentation as imposed by the Federation (at least not anything that would create 'superior Kelpiens' - and it would only be used to treat genetic anomalies that could compromise ones health) - unless of course the ban on genetic experimentation was lifted at some point, or the limited genetic engineering used (to ensure conception and protect the gestating fetus in a harsh environment which gave Su'Kal his ability - but dr. Culber didn't mention anything of the kind and he postulated that non-genetically modified embryos could survive/adapt to the environment and this environmental stimuli (radiation and dilithium) gave him his ability.
In short, it was an accident

We don't know what happened to the Kelpien's between the fight with Control and when the Discovery rescues Sa'Kul. All we know is that Sa'Kul is alive and is the second most sought after entity in the galaxy right behind the Spore Drive.

Before decoding the distress call, Starfleet had no idea that Su'Kal was even alive. It was after they interfaced with the Kelpien ship that they were able to determine there was a survivor.
Again, solving the Burn took priority because Burnham uncovered critical data pertaining to it (and made compelling arguments to Vance that without solving what caused it, the Federation probably won't be able to rebuild).

Just imagine if the Orion's or Romulans are able to get their hands on Sa'Kul and are able to turn him into a weapon.

Su'Kal would be useless to them in the absence of all that radiation and dilithium... and they didn't get their hands on him.
Also, why Romulans?
Romulans became allies and joined the Federation at some point.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Just imagine if the Orion's or Romulans are able to get their hands on Sa'Kul and are able to turn him into a weapon.

Away from the dilithium planet, Su'Kal has no special abilities. He's just a normal Kelpien. So he can't cause another Burn or anything like that.

 

[Dryson]

Away from the dilithium planet, Su'Kal has no special abilities. He's just a normal Kelpien. So he can't cause another Burn or anything like that.

Do we know for certain if the abilities of Su'Kal are limited to just the planet he was on?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Do we know for certain if the abilities of Su'Kal are limited to just the planet he was on?

Yes, we do.

 

[somebuddyX]

What if Bender was really giant?

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

What if Bender was really giant?

What if... that thing I just said.

 

[Dryson]

If IF was This, would we really know where we going in the time line?

If the Fill-Bowel-Dens existed in the 32nd century, would they be able to fly starships by now? They might look rather cute in a starship the size of modern day U.S. naval cruiser.

 

[F. King Daniel]

What if Bender was really giant?

Like Giant Spock Clone in TAS? And they become best friends??