• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

The Diane Carey novels

Joel_Kirk

Joel_Kirk

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
I know there is some 'controversy'--I don't really like using that term as there are things outside the fictional Trek world deemed more 'controversial' but I digress--about the word usage of Diane Carey...

I found a bit in Trials and Tribble-ations...which didn't detract from the story, but were noticable...

Mr. Lurry is described as ' an unclelike man'...

Admiral Fitzpatrick: 'a frosty man in a gold shirt'

Dulmer and Lucsly: 'two paperwonks'

Uhura: 'an exotic black woman' (This is interesting because she is the only character in the book who is described by her skin tone or ethnicity, etc...)

Are there more or less interesting words in her other novels? What about her novels appeal or does not appeal to you?
 
The character of Piper in Dreadnought! and Battlestations! is a shameless Mary Sue. Diane Carey even admitted that at a Star Trek convention.

I never liked Beverly Crusher. But Carey's characterization of her made her even worse. :wtf:

I'm in the process of moving, so my Star Trek books are packed away. But as soon as I can, I'll dig out the Carey novels and post a few examples of what I hate about her writing...
 
For the most part, her novels are good fun, with great developement of Captain Kirk and Co.

She doesn't seem to care for TNG, though. Her Ghost Ship has Picard and Co. being very unlikable.

That said, I love most of her Trek-works. They're never a chore to read.

As for the controversy...I think it all stems from the fact that she's pretty public about her political views. Let's be honest, though--Michael A. Martin's not exactly subtle about his....

I must say, I'm very suprised at all the accusations about Carey "forcing her views" on her readers. All I can say about this is, as someone who has read most of her novels, the only time I've ever came across her politics in one of them...was an Ayn Rand quote after the story was done. (And it's not even controversial: "No man may initiate the use of force against another...")

That. Is. It.
 
Timewalker said:
The character of Piper in Dreadnought! and Battlestations! is a shameless Mary Sue. Diane Carey even admitted that at a Star Trek convention.
Click to expand...

But she's also pointed out that, unlike most Mary Sues, Piper has faults, number one--and number two, Jim Kirk is always one step ahead of her--at the very least. The stereotypical Mary Sue is always a pretty little genius girl-wonder who outdoes the crew. Piper may be pretty, but she's a regular gal, who happens to be a respectable officer.

In the end, Piper's one Mary Sue I can live with. :cool:
 
Rush Limborg said:
I must say, I'm very suprised at all the accusations about Carey "forcing her views" on her readers. All I can say about this is, as someone who has read most of her novels, the only time I've ever came across her politics in one of them...was an Ayn Rand quote after the story was done. (And it's not even controversial: "No man may initiate the use of force against another...")
Click to expand...
Libertarianism is at the core of the New Earth books, and it's strange to see Kirk and his crew espousing a longing for libertarianism. Carey occasionally has characterization problems, and having the crew mouth the idea that government is bad and shackles freedom was random and absurd. Kirk, for all of his reputation of being a rebel, was actually the good little soldier.

Of course, you could argue that all the shit that Belle Terre goes through, with the planet getting attacked over and over and over, argues against the idea that libertarianism works, because the novels show that it doesn't; it takes an actual military to deal with the problem.

There's some cod-Heinlein political philosophy in Red Sector. For all the problems I had with that book, and they are legion, the politics of the book did not number among them.
 
Rush Limborg said:
She doesn't seem to care for TNG, though. Her Ghost Ship has Picard and Co. being very unlikable.
Click to expand...

Ghost Ship would be a book I'd give a pass on with the characterization - being the first original TNG novel, no one really had an idea of who the characters were when it was actually being written.

For what it's worth, I tend to enjoy her novels. The only thing that really stands out in them is what is obviously her own love of ships of the sea, and in her novels, it seems like EVERYONE has a passion for. That, I think, is one of the things in her writing that is a 'love it or hate it' kind of thing.
 
I love her novels, and am a big fan of the Belle Terre book series (Challenger being my favorite). I have always enjoyed her novels, even the much maligned Ship of the Line.

J.
 
As I've said elsewhere, her novels featuring George Kirk and Robert April are among my favorites, and I enjoyed the action/storytelling of the Piper novels. I didn't find her an annoying Mary Sue because she has her faults, and makes mistakes, as I recall.

My only problem was one page in the first Piper novel (Dreadnought), which puts ridiculous Randian bunko in the mouth of a Vulcan. Anyone trying to reconcile libertarianism/Ayn Rand's cult of selfishness with the ideals of the Federation is going to end up with mental whiplash.

But it's one annoying passge easily overlooked. One page. The stories are still fun, and she does good battle sequences.

Don't know about her later stuff.
 
I always enjoyed reading Diane Carey as well. It has been a while since I picked up one of her books, so, thanks for the jolt. I'm going to look through the book shelves and reacquaint myself.
 
Not a big Carey fan. Didn't even know her political views. I thought the name the Kauld was pretty cool for a villianous species, but I just didn't care enough to read the New Earth books, even though the overall premise sounded interesting. The one book that sticks out for me was Ship of the Line. I thought Carey took a good idea and squandered it, and she ruined the Picard-Madred reunion. I remember being very disappointed with that book and it soured me on other Carey stuff. Though previously I had tried to read Best Destiny and lost interest in it. I guess Carey just doesn't do it for me.
 
Allyn Gibson said:
Rush Limborg said:
I must say, I'm very suprised at all the accusations about Carey "forcing her views" on her readers. All I can say about this is, as someone who has read most of her novels, the only time I've ever came across her politics in one of them...was an Ayn Rand quote after the story was done. (And it's not even controversial: "No man may initiate the use of force against another...")
Click to expand...
Libertarianism is at the core of the New Earth books, and it's strange to see Kirk and his crew espousing a longing for libertarianism. Carey occasionally has characterization problems, and having the crew mouth the idea that government is bad and shackles freedom was random and absurd.
Click to expand...

Actually, it's not uncalled for. Recall ALL those episodes in which Kirk and Co. effectively destroy "paradise" for alien societies--because the computer/ruler/government is, in Kirk's mind, infringing on the freedom of the people.

Sounds pretty libertarian to me.

Of course, you could argue that all the shit that Belle Terre goes through, with the planet getting attacked over and over and over, argues against the idea that libertarianism works, because the novels show that it doesn't; it takes an actual military to deal with the problem.
Click to expand...

I'm no libertarian ("Reagan Conservative" is more my league), but I can tell you not all libertarians are Ron Paul "No overseas fighting" semi-pacifists--or 9/11 truthers. Many of them are strong on national defense, etc.

After all, in Voyages of Imagination, Diane noted how she strongly supports the War on Terror....

Which, as Spock once noted, was, "Many considered...to be a noble effort."
 
^ While Trek has never shied away from reflecting political views or real life conflicts, at least they've gone to some efforts to disguise it by metaphor. But Carey is as subtle as a turd in a punchbowl.
 
Rush Limborg said:
But she's also pointed out that, unlike most Mary Sues, Piper has faults, number one--and number two, Jim Kirk is always one step ahead of her--at the very least. The stereotypical Mary Sue is always a pretty little genius girl-wonder who outdoes the crew. Piper may be pretty, but she's a regular gal, who happens to be a respectable officer.
Click to expand...

Um, no. Kirk is a genuius-level tactician and operations officer. For Piper to be just one step behind him would, by your own definition, place her at genius-level as well. Hardly a regular gal. Carey crossed a major line with this one and I no longer read her books because of it.
 
Dark Gilligan said:
Um, no. Kirk is a genuius-level tactician and operations officer. For Piper to be just one step behind him would, by your own definition, place her at genius-level as well. Hardly a regular gal.
Click to expand...

Well, of course she had potential to be a great officer, but it was undeveloped. Carey was basing the Piper novels on the early adventures of Horatio Hornblower, the character who was the main inspiration for Kirk himself. Piper was meant to be a novice "Kirk-in-training" complete with her own Vulcan and doctor sidekicks. But she was definitely a novice and had a lot to learn. I'd say she was more like three steps behind Kirk at every turn.

Carey crossed a major line with this one and I no longer read her books because of it.
Click to expand...

That's an odd sentence, considering it was her very first book.
 
Yeah, but he cast it in terms of her "crossing a line," i.e. from the perspective of her actions, not his. So since she wrote that before other novels he did read, does that mean she crossed back?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top