The Day of the Doctore Review Thread (Spoilers?)

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

It's Daleks... With an e.
Had the same thought.
The Daleks may say, "Hey, Time Lords are back. Let's get back to exterminating them. After you, Joe. " "aah, thanks, Dave, but wouldn't want to take pleasure of first extermination from you. You go first!" And then the Dalek Emperor says, "Stop this nonsense! We need a volunteer to restart the war. Whoever wants the eternal glory of the first kill roll forward!" All the Daleks roll backwards except Dalek Bob.
Bob, after noticing a few moments later "aaaaww crap!"

 

[Captain_Amasov]

The Daleks are inherently disposed to destroy all other life that isn't like themselves, they'll have no choice but to come into conflict with the Time Lords again, sooner or later. They will not let it stand that life other than their own exists anywhere in the universe.

All they'd have done in the meantime is analyze where they thought they went wrong the first time and try again in a different way, whether it works in the end or not.

 

[PorthosShadow]

The Daleks are inherently disposed to destroy all other life that isn't like themselves, they'll have no choice but to come into conflict with the Time Lords again, sooner or later. They will not let it stand that life other than their own exists anywhere in the universe.

All they'd have done in the meantime is analyze where they thought they went wrong the first time and try again in a different way, whether it works in the end or not.

I would say that given they agreed to be part of an alliance to halt the destruction of the universe it might be an indication of progress. Granted, that was kind of big motivator to force them into cooperating with someone else that wasn't them but still. They did work with other people towards a common goal. Maybe with this current iteration of The Daleks has just enough sense to avoid their obliteration this time around.

 

[Captain_Amasov]

The Daleks are inherently disposed to destroy all other life that isn't like themselves, they'll have no choice but to come into conflict with the Time Lords again, sooner or later. They will not let it stand that life other than their own exists anywhere in the universe.

All they'd have done in the meantime is analyze where they thought they went wrong the first time and try again in a different way, whether it works in the end or not.

I would say that given they agreed to be part of an alliance to halt the destruction of the universe it might be an indication of progress. Granted, that was kind of big motivator to force them into cooperating with someone else that wasn't them but still. They did work with other people towards a common goal. Maybe with this current iteration of The Daleks has just enough sense to avoid their obliteration this time around.

Well yes, however they allied themselves with others against their biggest threat and common enemy; the Doctor, a Time Lord whom they saw as being responsible for the destruction of the universe. It wouldn't be much of a stretch for this alliance to see that the Time Lords threatened the universe with the last Time War, and use their combined forces against them should they ever return. The Daleks position would be that at the end of it all they'd just backstab their "allies" and finally rule the universe.

 

[Mr Light]

Maybe instead there could be a Temporal Cold War between the Time Lords and the Daleks

Both sides don't want to start the war until they know they can win, given what happened the last time, so they're both searching for an ultimate weapon while at the same time avoiding overt conflict.

Gasp! The Curator is Future Guy!

 

[Christopher]

The Daleks position would be that at the end of it all they'd just backstab their "allies" and finally rule the universe.

Absolutely. We've seen the Daleks enter into alliances before, in "The Daleks' Master Plan" and "Death to the Daleks," but they're always just using their "allies" to serve their own agendas and inevitably turn on them once cooperation is no longer in Dalek interests.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Maybe instead there could be a Temporal Cold War between the Time Lords and the Daleks

Both sides don't want to start the war until they know they can win, given what happened the last time, so they're both searching for an ultimate weapon while at the same time avoiding overt conflict.

Gasp! The Curator is Future Guy!

I think you've hit on JJ's Star Wars reboot.

The Daleks position would be that at the end of it all they'd just backstab their "allies" and finally rule the universe.

Absolutely. We've seen the Daleks enter into alliances before, in "The Daleks' Master Plan" and "Death to the Daleks," but they're always just using their "allies" to serve their own agendas and inevitably turn on them once cooperation is no longer in Dalek interests.

It amazes me folks still go into alliances with the Daleks. I suppose getting killed last is the better place in line.

 

[Christopher]

Daleks can be devious when they need to be. "I am your ser-vant!"

 

[Gov Kodos]

My favorite

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doeZkX-SPUs[/yt]

 

[MrJ]

Maybe instead there could be a Temporal Cold War between the Time Lords and the Daleks

Both sides don't want to start the war until they know they can win, given what happened the last time, so they're both searching for an ultimate weapon while at the same time avoiding overt conflict.

Gasp! The Curator is Future Guy!

I read once that there was a tentative plan by RTD and one of Enterprise's show runners (Braga, I think) for a Star Trek/Doctor Who crossover that was to happen somewhere in Enterprise's 5th or 6th season. But Enterprise was canceled just as it started to get kind of good, so that never happened.

 

[The Wormhole]

Maybe instead there could be a Temporal Cold War between the Time Lords and the Daleks

Both sides don't want to start the war until they know they can win, given what happened the last time, so they're both searching for an ultimate weapon while at the same time avoiding overt conflict.

Gasp! The Curator is Future Guy!

That could work. Especially since Tom Baker has the perfect voice to give a mysterious shadowy figure...

I read once that there was a tentative plan by RTD and one of Enterprise's show runners (Braga, I think) for a Star Trek/Doctor Who crossover that was to happen somewhere in Enterprise's 5th or 6th season. But Enterprise was canceled just as it started to get kind of good, so that never happened.

RTD wanted to do a Star Trek/Doctor Who crossover, he even discusses the outline he had in The Writer's Tale. And while it is true he abandoned the idea when Enterprise was cancelled, there's no indication he was ever in talks with anyone involved with Star Trek about the idea.

 

[Saul]

What was his outline? ^

No, the "timelines out of sync" reference was a bit of continuity porn to retroactively explain why, in "The Three Doctors," "The Five Doctors," and "The Two Doctors" in the classic series, the later Doctors never seemed to remember the events from the perspective of their earlier selves. Fans have been wondering about that for decades, so Moffat, who's the ultimate ascended fanboy/continuity geek, threw in a line to "explain" it.

If anything, it actually supported the idea that history hasn't changed -- that this is what always happened, but the Doctor didn't remember it.

Hadn't heard that. But I don't see how it supports your theory since the 11th Doctor remembered what he had to do with the Fez. Also the line that the War Doctor will still have the memory of burning Gallifrey instead of trying to save it suggests something was changed. I think it could go either way really.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

TDOTD doesn't fully reconcile the fall of Galifrey that we believe happened Pre-TDOTD. You watch "The End of Time" and you have this scene that sticks out from what we see in TDOTD. With the Oracle lady saying Galifrey Fall. This is of course after 10 sabotages the machine that allows Rassilon and the council to escape the timelocked events of the time war during the final day.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faHXtrVM_Ao[/yt]


I do think that's why the painting is called "Galifrey Falls No More". Because in one timeline it did fall.

In the TDOTD both 10 and 11 recite that they had seen Galifrey burn. For 10, this is before "The End of Time". An argument can be made that the Doctor's memory is faulty. But it makes me think the Doctor would respond the same way Nero did when Pike told him that Romulus' wasn't destroyed and it still exists. And then Nero goes...
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFUqVeQg-Yg[/yt]
LMAO that scene always makes me laugh. I digress. Point is the Doctor seems very certain that he did see Galifrey burn/fall. He even states he "never wants to see it again".

Allegedly Moffat has said TDOTD changed events established and that these events are always what happened. So Who Knows what's true?

 

[Gov Kodos]

The high council is a bunch of mad-hatters.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I read once that there was a tentative plan by RTD and one of Enterprise's show runners (Braga, I think) for a Star Trek/Doctor Who crossover that was to happen somewhere in Enterprise's 5th or 6th season. But Enterprise was canceled just as it started to get kind of good, so that never happened.

RTD wanted to do a Star Trek/Doctor Who crossover, he even discusses the outline he had in The Writer's Tale. And while it is true he abandoned the idea when Enterprise was cancelled, there's no indication he was ever in talks with anyone involved with Star Trek about the idea.

Yeah, I don't think it ever got past the "It would be kick-ass to do this!" stage. I recall an interview around 2009-10 where RTD said Enterprise was canceled before Julie Gardner could even talk to Berman's people.

In The Writer's Tale paperback RTD talks about one of the 2009 specials ideas he toyed with, which was a "Star Trek with the serial numbers filed off" idea. I don't remember the details, and I'm not sure where my copy of the book is at the moment.

 

[Mr Awe]

Star Trek with the serial numbers filed off would be a fun idea even today!

Mr Awe

 

[Christopher]

Hadn't heard that. But I don't see how it supports your theory since the 11th Doctor remembered what he had to do with the Fez.

But he only vaguely and partially remembered. Memory is never as simple as a choice between perfect recall and absolute forgetting. There are plenty of things that all of us only barely remember, or that we've completely forgotten until someone reminds us. Eleven may have remembered fragments once reminded, but it was quite clear that he didn't recall details.

Also the line that the War Doctor will still have the memory of burning Gallifrey instead of trying to save it suggests something was changed.

No, it suggests that he'll forget that he found an alternative.

The whole point of this, anyway, is that the storyline was not changed -- that everything the Doctor has personally, emotionally gone through over the past seven seasons is still a part of his history. The whole thing was structured to preserve that emotional arc rather than altering it. So all this quibbling over whether history was physically changed is beside the point. What we have here is a dramatically self-consistent time loop, and since this is a work of fiction, that's the only thing that matters.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Star Trek with the serial numbers filed off would be a fun idea even today!

Paul Magrs and Jeremy Hoad wrote an eighth Doctor novel that partly that, The Blue Angel. The eighth Doctor, Fitz, and Compassion land on a thinly disguised Enterprise. Not only is it a thinly disguised Star Trek story, it's a thinly disguised K/S story.

 

[The Wormhole]

What was his outline? ^

Basically it involved the TARDIS somehow getting aboard the Enterprise and the Doctor having no choice but to work with the crew despite his apprehensions about an obviously military outfit claiming to be "peaceful explorers."

Like Allyn Gibson pointed out RTD considered retooling the idea to having a Starfleet-like ship and crew (Captain, first officer, science officer, alien officer with a funny forehead) but ultimately nothing came of that.

One could argue that Moffat did his own variation of having such a starship in A Christmas Carol. The bridge of the ship is obviously Trek inspired, and even included Trek XI's lens flares.

 

[PorthosShadow]

What was his outline? ^

Basically it involved the TARDIS somehow getting aboard the Enterprise and the Doctor having no choice but to work with the crew despite his apprehensions about an obviously military outfit claiming to be "peaceful explorers."

Like Allyn Gibson pointed out RTD considered retooling the idea to having a Starfleet-like ship and crew (Captain, first officer, science officer, alien officer with a funny forehead) but ultimately nothing came of that.

One could argue that Moffat did his own variation of having such a starship in A Christmas Carol. The bridge of the ship is obviously Trek inspired, and even included Trek XI's lens flares.

I would be all for this if it were just a one-off thing and not part of the official cannon of either ST or DW. It would be a lot of fun to see The Doctor in Star Trek.