My biggest nit with the movie is the STUPID cell phones as a spying network/3d imager... The movie really deserver a conclusion that did not depend on that.
The Dark Knight - Revisited
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watching the terminator salvation trailer he still uses the batman voice
Connor- The devils mumble mumble mumble mumble busy
me-what? rewinds trailer
Connor- The devils hands have been busy
me- oh!
The bale batman voice was awesome.
"you and me, we've been at war...."
Thespeckledkiwi
Vice Admiral
I've have had a long, long discussion with friends that absolutely love this movie.
Do I agree that it is one of the best comic book adaptions? Yes. Is it one of the best movies of the year? Yes. But it is becoming one of the most overrated movies this year. It was a fun film but it isn't the best film I've seen in years.
But -- there were many flaws with the movie that I simply can't get over. In the end, it suffered a little bit of what killed Spider-Man 3 (there were MANY, MANY things that destroyed Spider-Man 3).
I think they should have introduced Two-Face but kept him as a teaser for the next movie to begin with. Two - Face and the Joker are two of the more complex and psychologically engaging of Batman. They represent, more than many of his other villains, Bruce/Batman's psyche and image.
I liked Ledger's acting. While there is -- what? Three live action Jokers? He did a great job performing but I don't like that Nolan tried to keep Joker's origin specifically realistic.
There is no way and in no shape or form that Nolan and the Justice League movie that continually gets rumored is going to be one in the same. Absolutely no way.
The thing about the Joker is his unrealistic beginnings and how Batman created the Joker. Joker represents simply more than a dangerous villain but a representation of Batman's vigilante attitude.
The Joker also brings a huge - huge attack on Batman that I think they tried to cover in the movie but not very well. And that is, if there is no Batman, would there be these villains running around? And many can point to the Joker as Batman created.
It is about choices and the ramifications of those choices. That to me, represents Batman as a character both in comics and in the media. He struggles with the choices he makes because he knows in the end, one night - one decision could mean what he went through and what he could have gone through.
Do I agree that it is one of the best comic book adaptions? Yes. Is it one of the best movies of the year? Yes. But it is becoming one of the most overrated movies this year. It was a fun film but it isn't the best film I've seen in years.
But -- there were many flaws with the movie that I simply can't get over. In the end, it suffered a little bit of what killed Spider-Man 3 (there were MANY, MANY things that destroyed Spider-Man 3).
I think they should have introduced Two-Face but kept him as a teaser for the next movie to begin with. Two - Face and the Joker are two of the more complex and psychologically engaging of Batman. They represent, more than many of his other villains, Bruce/Batman's psyche and image.
I liked Ledger's acting. While there is -- what? Three live action Jokers? He did a great job performing but I don't like that Nolan tried to keep Joker's origin specifically realistic.
There is no way and in no shape or form that Nolan and the Justice League movie that continually gets rumored is going to be one in the same. Absolutely no way.
The thing about the Joker is his unrealistic beginnings and how Batman created the Joker. Joker represents simply more than a dangerous villain but a representation of Batman's vigilante attitude.
The Joker also brings a huge - huge attack on Batman that I think they tried to cover in the movie but not very well. And that is, if there is no Batman, would there be these villains running around? And many can point to the Joker as Batman created.
It is about choices and the ramifications of those choices. That to me, represents Batman as a character both in comics and in the media. He struggles with the choices he makes because he knows in the end, one night - one decision could mean what he went through and what he could have gone through.
watching the terminator salvation trailer he still uses the batman voice
Connor- The devils mumble mumble mumble mumble busy
me-what? rewinds trailer
Connor- The devils hands have been busy
me- oh!
The bale batman voice was awesome.
"you and me, we've been at war...."
Yes! it never bothered me in Batman but I had to watch the terminator trailer 5 times to work out what he was saying...
Hugh Laurie, during breaks filming House, still speaks in an American accent.
Christian Bale himself, behind the scenes of several films, still speaks with his American accent.
Why do you think that is?
On other notes, while I think The Dark Knight is a really great film, it does have several flaws. I don't entirely buy The Joker could get away with several of his plans. By the time he pulls the bus out of the bank, no one anywhere has seen this thing sitting half way in the front door? Are all those buses his, or has he timed this with a real school bus caravan? How does he set all those oil drums for the boats and the charges for the hospital...especially when its supposed to be one under heavy guard? I still think everything having to do with the Tumbler, including the Bat-Pod, is completely retarded. When he hit the wall, went up it, and the seat spun around, I totally rolled my eyes.
There's a few other things, but they're not major. Overall, it's a great film. It's tied with Iron Man as my favourite comic book film.
And that's not entirely true (the part where Batman maintains his "Batman voice" when he talks to Rachel and Lucius).
Well, not entirely. Bruce spoke to Rachel in his "Batman voice" when The Joker crashed his party and he hid Dent in a closet. He also spoke to Rachel (as Batman) in his regular voice after he saved her from being thrown out of a window. So he wasn't always using the voice -- I think (and to further along what I believe T'Baio was referring to) when Bruce "becomes" Batman, he adopts the entire persona, voice included. It just isn't the costume, it's everything. When he needs to drop the persona, he does.
Well, not entirely. Bruce spoke to Rachel in his "Batman voice" when The Joker crashed his party and he hid Dent in a closet. He also spoke to Rachel (as Batman) in his regular voice after he saved her from being thrown out of a window. So he wasn't always using the voice -- I think (and to further along what I believe T'Baio was referring to) when Bruce "becomes" Batman, he adopts the entire persona, voice included. It just isn't the costume, it's everything. When he needs to drop the persona, he does.
Bruce is obviously a 'method actor' he inhabits Batman, he IS Batman and the voice is a part of that.
With regards to the whole cape-batpod issue the cape flows out the back straight away when Batman sets off so it couldn't get trapped - there's a whole thing about it on the dvd special features
With regards to the whole cape-batpod issue the cape flows out the back straight away when Batman sets off so it couldn't get trapped - there's a whole thing about it on the dvd special features
Bale also puts "bruce wayne" on his set trailer.
In interviews he said he keeps the american accent because people wouldn't want to hear that batman is a welshman.
That Bale. He certainly has class.
Speaking of the cape and the batpod, I believe one of the features on the blu-ray spoke of this, and along with mentioning that the original idea was to have it retract, they said it was when they did test runs with the bike that they discovered it, in fact, DOES NOT get caught in the back wheel like they thought it would. Once they discovered that, they knew they were going to have it that way in the movie.
'
watching the terminator salvation trailer he still uses the batman voice
I think that's just his angry voice, period. He used it in Equilibrium when interrogating a prisoner.
S
Stone_Cold_Sisko
Guest
So having watched the DVD now, my 'revisited' thoughts.
Well first off, the film is still excellent. It's incredibly well-made.
It's also much more dense than most superhero movies, there are entire subplots that whizz by that I forgot about - for example the Coleman Reese one, or the big about how his suits are vulnerable to dogs (pays off at the end), there's just a ton of little details.
The Joker is fantastic so much so that you forgot how good he is.
it is a valid complaint that The Joker is unrealistically omnipotent, like when the station blows up or as t'baio mentioned getting the explosives on the boat and stuff like that. It's true.
However, I think Ledger's Joker is just so great and iconic that it doesn't lessen my enjoyment at all. If Joker wasn't so well portrayed by Heath this would be a bigger issue. I feel like there's something meta at work here, almost like Batman's real opponent isn't The Joker, it's like, the DEVIL with face paint. My favorite Joker moment is his final monologue hanging upside down.
I feel like, some of us Batman fans take The Joker for granted a little bit. His devious schemes... kill reese or I blow up a hospital... changing the clowns with the hostages... take off your mask or I kill more people... we're kinda used to that stuff from the comics... but if you think about you really haven't seen a lot of film villains, particularly MAINSTREAM film villains, be so devious and wickedly clever in their schemes. I really think stuff like that kind of, well, blew casual viewers' minds. there so much about The Joker actually that we sort of take for granted, its easy to forget the majority of the people have NEVER READ OR SEEN The Joker of 'The killing Joke', or Long Halloween, or any other iconic comic Joker before - it was a surprise to see such a chaotic deep and dark Joker.
On the flip side there are a few clunky exposition lines, a couple of small things not explained. Particularly how Dent racks up that body count, the count Gordon gives at the end of the movie just doesn't compute. I figured out an explanation but i'm still kinda reaching.
The Sonar thing is preposterous. It's acceptable only because it sets up a good Lucius Fox ethical moment. I felt like Lucius was a real presence in the movie. I'd prefer it if maybe it took up so much 'power' that he could only use for a few seconds or something, and they pinpointed the Joker's location and then got rid of the machine.
When Dent holds the gun to the little kid's head, that's some hardcore sh-t right there. Great music there too.
Gary Oldman is an unsung hero, he gives a consistently great and understated performance.
Btw nice little callback at the end. Gordon thanks Batman and batman says 'you dont have to thank me', and he says 'yes I do'... callback tot he end of Begins where Gordon says he never thanked Batman and Batman goes 'and you'll never have to'. I noticed a ton of little subtle script details i missed before. Great stuff.
Well first off, the film is still excellent. It's incredibly well-made.
It's also much more dense than most superhero movies, there are entire subplots that whizz by that I forgot about - for example the Coleman Reese one, or the big about how his suits are vulnerable to dogs (pays off at the end), there's just a ton of little details.
The Joker is fantastic so much so that you forgot how good he is.
it is a valid complaint that The Joker is unrealistically omnipotent, like when the station blows up or as t'baio mentioned getting the explosives on the boat and stuff like that. It's true.
However, I think Ledger's Joker is just so great and iconic that it doesn't lessen my enjoyment at all. If Joker wasn't so well portrayed by Heath this would be a bigger issue. I feel like there's something meta at work here, almost like Batman's real opponent isn't The Joker, it's like, the DEVIL with face paint. My favorite Joker moment is his final monologue hanging upside down.
I feel like, some of us Batman fans take The Joker for granted a little bit. His devious schemes... kill reese or I blow up a hospital... changing the clowns with the hostages... take off your mask or I kill more people... we're kinda used to that stuff from the comics... but if you think about you really haven't seen a lot of film villains, particularly MAINSTREAM film villains, be so devious and wickedly clever in their schemes. I really think stuff like that kind of, well, blew casual viewers' minds. there so much about The Joker actually that we sort of take for granted, its easy to forget the majority of the people have NEVER READ OR SEEN The Joker of 'The killing Joke', or Long Halloween, or any other iconic comic Joker before - it was a surprise to see such a chaotic deep and dark Joker.
On the flip side there are a few clunky exposition lines, a couple of small things not explained. Particularly how Dent racks up that body count, the count Gordon gives at the end of the movie just doesn't compute. I figured out an explanation but i'm still kinda reaching.
The Sonar thing is preposterous. It's acceptable only because it sets up a good Lucius Fox ethical moment. I felt like Lucius was a real presence in the movie. I'd prefer it if maybe it took up so much 'power' that he could only use for a few seconds or something, and they pinpointed the Joker's location and then got rid of the machine.
When Dent holds the gun to the little kid's head, that's some hardcore sh-t right there. Great music there too.
Gary Oldman is an unsung hero, he gives a consistently great and understated performance.
Btw nice little callback at the end. Gordon thanks Batman and batman says 'you dont have to thank me', and he says 'yes I do'... callback tot he end of Begins where Gordon says he never thanked Batman and Batman goes 'and you'll never have to'. I noticed a ton of little subtle script details i missed before. Great stuff.
It's strange. I really adore Batman Begins (which I've rewatched several times) and I enjoyed TDK. However, I don't really feel the urge to pick the latter up. I may yet. But right now I'm quite happy without it.
In a way, I came out of TDK entertained but with an empty feeling. One of the things I adored about BB and one of the things I felt really made it work were the quieter scenes that would give the characters some time and space to move on and develop. This seemed to be almost entirely lacking in TDK which was just moving from one action piece to another (in my memory anyway).
While I guess is due to the motif of the Joker keeping Batman on his toes at all times, I felt it didn't make for very rewarding watching in the way I felt BB was rewarding to watch.
In a way, I came out of TDK entertained but with an empty feeling. One of the things I adored about BB and one of the things I felt really made it work were the quieter scenes that would give the characters some time and space to move on and develop. This seemed to be almost entirely lacking in TDK which was just moving from one action piece to another (in my memory anyway).
While I guess is due to the motif of the Joker keeping Batman on his toes at all times, I felt it didn't make for very rewarding watching in the way I felt BB was rewarding to watch.
In Jonathan Nolan's script, the Bat-cape retracts into this little backpack on Batman's back, and that was originally the intention, but Chris Nolan wanted the iconic visual of Batman's flowing cape while riding the Bat-pod, and I completely agree. Yes, it might not be the most realistic notion, but sometimes you need to forgo reality for something that just looks damned cool.
Besides, it would have looked a bit stupid and not nearly as cool looking in my opinion if Batman's cape retracted. I think it would have been one of those eye-rolling, cringe-inducing moments if you ask me. So I'm really glad Nolan discarded it.
Plus the fact that when they tested the cape on the stunt rider on the cycle, the air flow was adequate enough that it did not and would not get caught in the wheel.
Whoops, looks like this point has already been made...oh well.
Anyway, actually, one thing that I found odd about this otherwise great movie was the quick and WTF-esk type editting. To me, there were too many quick break away edits that kind of left the viewer somewhat confused. And it also seems the music cues were a bit off for the same reason.
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The only real major problem I have with the Dark Knight (and Batman Begins) is the vehicles. When I first saw the tumbler I really hated it, and while it's grown on me a little bit I still dislike it. I'm glad it was destroyed so he can get a new Batmobile in the next one (hopefully it wont be another tumbler). I also thought the Bat Cycle was really stupid.
I might be wrong about this, but I think he also used his Batman voice when he found the cops tied up and blindfolded during the funeral, asking them what happened.
During the party didn't Bruce use his Batman voice in front of Dent while hiding him? I found that a little odd. I can't remember if Dent had met Batman at that point in the movie, but even if he hadn't I would imagine Bruce should of known the chances of him meeting Dent while he was Batman was pretty high.
I might be wrong about this, but I think he also used his Batman voice when he found the cops tied up and blindfolded during the funeral, asking them what happened.
Bruce had already made Dent unconscious through his headlock, without Dent even seeing who put him in the headlock in the first place. So his identity was safe.
I noticed that too. Good catch.
Ah I didn't realize he knocked out Dent. Seems like a smart thing to do though, he couldn't risk Dent trying to escape from the closet.
I still haven't figured out the fake obit?
I still think The Joker was the editor-in-chief of his high school newspaper and just had mad newspaper skills.
That's pretty much what I think. He just made a fake Obit.
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