Did anybody notice that Picard didn't even evacuate the forward saucer section?
The Crash Scene In Nemesis
- Thread starter USS Valkyrie
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Considering the ship was in a heavy battle and the saucer section is mostly staterooms, labs, and lounges it's possible no one was even in those sections of the ship at the time. If there where their deaths probably would fall under the "dying for the greater good" catagory.
My gripe with that scene is that just a few minutes previously they make a point of telling us that the Scimitar still has shields. If that's the case, how is Picard's kamakazie run even going to get past the still raised shields?
Guinan was never on the Enterprise-E. She was simply a guest at the Rikers' wedding on Earth.
And yes, at least in the theatrical version I saw, there was a line earlier during the battle telling that certain decks had become uninhabitable and had to be evacuated. So the bow of the ship was empty to begin with.
Ramming is cool. Self-sacrifice is dramatic. NEM completely fumbled the ball, though, by not making it clear why exactly Picard was doing what he was doing, why it worked, and why it didn't work.
There was a half-hearted attempt to say that Picard chose to do the un-Picardlike thing in order to surprise his evil twin. But how was noble self-sacrifice un-Picardlike? There was the problem with shields - ramming was not presented as a treknologically attractive option, at least not in a way consistent with other movies and episodes, or in a way that the general audience could understand. And there was the failed self-destruct. There would have been half a dozen obvious ways to jiggle the details for better, clearer, more gripping drama...
Timo Saloniemi
Ramming is cool. Self-sacrifice is dramatic. NEM completely fumbled the ball, though, by not making it clear why exactly Picard was doing what he was doing, why it worked, and why it didn't work.
There was a half-hearted attempt to say that Picard chose to do the un-Picardlike thing in order to surprise his evil twin. But how was noble self-sacrifice un-Picardlike? There was the problem with shields - ramming was not presented as a treknologically attractive option, at least not in a way consistent with other movies and episodes, or in a way that the general audience could understand. And there was the failed self-destruct. There would have been half a dozen obvious ways to jiggle the details for better, clearer, more gripping drama...
Timo Saloniemi
My problem (among several hundred others) was when Shinzon ordered his ship to back away from the Enterprise after the collision. A larger ship can't back away from a smaller one; it would just drag it along.
This movie was so bad for so many reasons. I still haven't watched it all the way through without falling asleep.
This movie was so bad for so many reasons. I still haven't watched it all the way through without falling asleep.
According to which non-canon source?
In any case, I think that the whole scene was mangled as far as logic goes. Picard's shieldless, crippled ship is able to ram Shinzon's highly manuverable, 70% sheilded ship? Right, brilliant move, Picard, thank goodness crappy writing saved you.
This issue is raised a lot, but I fail to see the reason for it. There's no reason one ship would have to drag the other, unless they had somehow become firmly fused together. On top of that, the Shimitar rocket exhaust is also venting in the direction of the Enterprise, which would also push them apart. NEM has physics issues, but this isn't one of them.
The wreckage flying away at a 90 degree angle to the seperation is a bit questionable though...
But not physically completely unexpected, either. The structures of the starship must be under considerable tension during the ramming-compression, if not always; plenty of energy to be released in the form of transverse motion.
Indeed, the scene looks much like I'd imagine a low-speed collision between two ships as fragile as today's seagoing vessels would look like, if it happened in zero gee. But that's not quite how starship collisions should look like!
We could always say the scene happened in extreme slow motion - most space combat scenes in Trek might. But the "are shields or hulls stronger" question has been answered differently elsewhere in Trek.
Timo Saloniemi
Indeed, the scene looks much like I'd imagine a low-speed collision between two ships as fragile as today's seagoing vessels would look like, if it happened in zero gee. But that's not quite how starship collisions should look like!
We could always say the scene happened in extreme slow motion - most space combat scenes in Trek might. But the "are shields or hulls stronger" question has been answered differently elsewhere in Trek.
Timo Saloniemi
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