"Wonderwall" and "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" are the same song.
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The "Courage fanfare"...or is it...???
- Thread starter csilva85
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I heard someone argue that the themes to Lawrence of Arabia, Born Free, and Star Wars are the same song.
The opening theme of the 1940s film Kings' Row sounds a lot like Star Wars too. Check it out sometime.
The opening theme of the 1940s film Kings' Row sounds a lot like Star Wars too. Check it out sometime.
The chord changes of the theme are taken from the standard, "Out of Nowhere." Here's Stan Getz doing that tune at the link below. Give hime 10 or so seconds to play his intro, then when he swings into it, the chords under his melody should sound familiar. Chord changes are not copyright-able.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G42XUqap3a8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G42XUqap3a8
I was a music major, and studied harmony, composition and compositional techniques.Quartal harmony is one of the things which helps give some pieces by Debussy or Bartok or Hindemith a distinctive sound, and it's part of what makes McCoy Tyner awesome when he plays Latin.
Now, I did notice, watching Twelve O'Clock High years ago, that there was indeed quite a bit of music which was very much like the sound of Alexander Courage's fanfare, but that doesn't mean Courage was ripping off Dominic Frontiere. It just means that they were working with the same kind of harmonic language -- language which other composers had used before them -- in much the same way Beethoven used the same tertial chord structures which Bach and Haydn had used before him.
Ok well NOW you're just showing off!!!
There is an older recording that sounds even more like "My Sweet Lord". That is the one I thought of the first time I heard it.
A classic example is the tune to the song "Make 'Em Laugh!" which plagiarizes the earlier movie song "Be a Clown!" I think that the same producer was involved, so no complaints were lodged.
Apologies for arriving very late to the party, but I am compelled to attempt to settle this issue with the Star Trek Fanfare and it's appearance in episodes of 12 O'Clock High. It has been documented online elsewhere and I will attempt to find it again asap but it was Dominic Frontiere who "plagiarized" Courage. During the week that Courage was recording The Cage score he was using Frontiere's down time in the same studio. Whether it was Frontiere arriving as Courage was wrapping his time or lingering after his session to hear what Courage had written, either way he was in the studio as Courage worked on the Star Trek Fanfare. Frontiere was very impressed with the theme but felt bad that no one would ever hear it as the space opera Courage was writing for would never ever see the light of day. Rather than wasting such a great piece of music Frontiere simply went ahead and used it, presumably without asking permission.
FYI, if V For Vendetta was the first 12 O'Clock High episode to use the fanfare it was aired a good 3 months after Courage's sessions earlier in January which would give Frontiere plenty of time to mull over the idea of using it and introducing it into his series.
As for why there was never any legal recourse taken can be explained that in the long run the show or the music from 12 O'Clock High is in no way as famous or so thoroughly ingrained in society and pop culture as is Star Trek. There would simply be no money in it to sue. I would suggest as well that this also substantiates my assurssion that Courage wrote the fanfare because if Frontiere did I would imagine that he or his estate would most certainly have sued over this.
Dave
FYI, if V For Vendetta was the first 12 O'Clock High episode to use the fanfare it was aired a good 3 months after Courage's sessions earlier in January which would give Frontiere plenty of time to mull over the idea of using it and introducing it into his series.
As for why there was never any legal recourse taken can be explained that in the long run the show or the music from 12 O'Clock High is in no way as famous or so thoroughly ingrained in society and pop culture as is Star Trek. There would simply be no money in it to sue. I would suggest as well that this also substantiates my assurssion that Courage wrote the fanfare because if Frontiere did I would imagine that he or his estate would most certainly have sued over this.
Dave
a) This thread had been lying dormant for over seven years. Let's let it rest.
b) There's a more recent thread on this subject in the Original Series forum that could be dug up, though it might have also been inactive for over a year at this point. We generally discourage responding to threads that haven't been active in more than a year.
c) 12 O'Clock High was using that fanfare in some of its earliest Season 1 episodes, which aired in Fall of '64, and used it throughout the series. If Courage composed his fanfare in January 1965, 12 O'Clock High episodes had already aired on television that used their fanfare.
b) There's a more recent thread on this subject in the Original Series forum that could be dug up, though it might have also been inactive for over a year at this point. We generally discourage responding to threads that haven't been active in more than a year.
c) 12 O'Clock High was using that fanfare in some of its earliest Season 1 episodes, which aired in Fall of '64, and used it throughout the series. If Courage composed his fanfare in January 1965, 12 O'Clock High episodes had already aired on television that used their fanfare.
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