The "Courage fanfare"...or is it...???

[csilva85]

As all you Trekkies know composer Alexander Courage is credited with authorship of the 8-note opening theme
known and referred to in Jeff Bond's book The Music of Star
Trek as the "Enterprise fanfare", or the "Courage fanfare"...

Interestingly enough, what Bond and others [for example,
writer Jon Burlingame] fail to note is that Dominic Frontiere,
composer of The Outer Limits, 12 O'Clock High, the Rat Patrol, etc. used a similar theme [the same intervallic structure - with the addition of one note @ the start of the phrase, and transposed to a different key] in 12 O'Clock High [it is used repeatedly in the episode "P.O.W.", just to name only one episode] which ran for a few seasons starting in 1964, a year before the "Enterprise fanfare"
was allegedly composed by Courage.

Is there anyone out there why can explain this apparent
"conflict"????

 

[M'Sharak]

Stacked fourths (as opposed to thirds, as in traditional western European harmony) are the basic intervallic structure to which you refer, and the idea did not originate with either composer. Also called quartal harmony, this is found in the music of other composers decades before either Star Trek or Twelve O'Clock High.

 

[HaplessCrewman]

As all you Trekkies know composer Alexander Courage is credited with authorship of the 8-note opening theme
known and referred to in Jeff Bond's book The Music of Star
Trek as the "Enterprise fanfare", or the "Courage fanfare"...

Interestingly enough, what Bond and others [for example,
writer Jon Burlingame] fail to note is that Dominic Frontiere,
composer of The Outer Limits, 12 O'Clock High, the Rat Patrol, etc. used a similar theme [the same intervallic structure - with the addition of one note @ the start of the phrase, and transposed to a different key] in 12 O'Clock High [it is used repeatedly in the episode "P.O.W.", just to name only one episode] which ran for a few seasons starting in 1964, a year before the "Enterprise fanfare"
was allegedly composed by Courage.

Is there anyone out there why can explain this apparent
"conflict"????

Link, please?

 

[Orcus]

First I've heard of it, too...

 

[Forbin]

Now let's hash out the "My Sweet Lord"/"He's So Fine" controversy!

 

[Ziz]

It's called "inspiration". Courage probably heard the theme of the other show and was inspired by the pacing and melody.

Billy Joel was on "Inside The Actors' Studio" a few years ago. One of the students asked him "Have you ever been writing a song only to realize it was something you already wrote years ago?" Joel: "Oh, all the time. I am my own greatest influence."

He then proceeds to tell a story about how he got a tune in his head and worked like crazy coming up with lyrics for it. He goes and plays it for the band. Upon finishing, one of them expresses his opinion.

Drummer: "You shumuck! That's 'Laughter In The Rain' by Neil Sedaka!"
Joel: "You mean I wrote all those lyrics for nothin'???"

Ultimately, those lyrics, set to a new tune, became "Movin' Out".

 

[Yug]

Yer nitpicking something the dude wrote for a quick paycheck back in the days of the 1960's episodic television meat grinder. Him and his peers shat this shit out four times a day I bet. Give him credit for adding the ethereal operatic singing at least, that's what makes the tune iconic. Does it sound similar? Maybe... but, at the time, he may not have figured it would be around long enough for anyone to give a shit... c'mon !!

 

[The Wormhole]

As all you Trekkies know composer Alexander Courage is credited with authorship of the 8-note opening theme
known and referred to in Jeff Bond's book The Music of Star
Trek as the "Enterprise fanfare", or the "Courage fanfare"...

Interestingly enough, what Bond and others [for example,
writer Jon Burlingame] fail to note is that Dominic Frontiere,
composer of The Outer Limits, 12 O'Clock High, the Rat Patrol, etc. used a similar theme [the same intervallic structure - with the addition of one note @ the start of the phrase, and transposed to a different key] in 12 O'Clock High [it is used repeatedly in the episode "P.O.W.", just to name only one episode] which ran for a few seasons starting in 1964, a year before the "Enterprise fanfare"
was allegedly composed by Courage.

Is there anyone out there why can explain this apparent
"conflict"????

This is clearly heresay which I am going to choose to ignore. I only follow official Trek doctrine. All praise the Word of Roddenberry.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

Stacked fourths (as opposed to thirds, as in traditional western European harmony) are the basic intervallic structure to which you refer, and the idea did not originate with either composer. Also called quartal harmony, this is found in the music of other composers decades before either Star Trek or Twelve O'Clock High.

M, you constantly amaze me!

 

[Psion]

Stacked fourths (as opposed to thirds, as in traditional western European harmony) are the basic intervallic structure to which you refer, and the idea did not originate with either composer. Also called quartal harmony, this is found in the music of other composers decades before either Star Trek or Twelve O'Clock High.

M, you constantly amaze me!

Indeed. M'Sharak is what you get when you add artificial intelligence to Google. Fear him. Her. It.

 

[Green Shirt]

Now let's hash out the "My Sweet Lord"/"He's So Fine" controversy!

George got ripped off on that one.

 

[Ziz]

Now let's hash out the "My Sweet Lord"/"He's So Fine" controversy!

George got ripped off on that one.

Yeah, his song came out 7 years LATER and he's the one that got ripped off.

No, I know what it was - the Chiffons had a time machine in 1963, the year BEFORE the Beatles were even officially formed. They saw these 4 kids in a club while on tour in England and went to 1970 to see what these guys were doing then. They heard George performing "My Sweet Lord", liked the tune, went back to 1963 and wrote new lyrics for it.

They're genuises!

 

[M'Sharak]

Stacked fourths (as opposed to thirds, as in traditional western European harmony) are the basic intervallic structure to which you refer, and the idea did not originate with either composer. Also called quartal harmony, this is found in the music of other composers decades before either Star Trek or Twelve O'Clock High.

M, you constantly amaze me!

Indeed. M'Sharak is what you get when you add artificial intelligence to Google. Fear him. Her. It.

I was a music major, and studied harmony, composition and compositional techniques. Quartal harmony is one of the things which helps give some pieces by Debussy or Bartok or Hindemith a distinctive sound, and it's part of what makes McCoy Tyner awesome when he plays Latin.

Now, I did notice, watching Twelve O'Clock High years ago, that there was indeed quite a bit of music which was very much like the sound of Alexander Courage's fanfare, but that doesn't mean Courage was ripping off Dominic Frontiere. It just means that they were working with the same kind of harmonic language -- language which other composers had used before them -- in much the same way Beethoven used the same tertial chord structures which Bach and Haydn had used before him.

 

[Orcus]

Now let's hash out the "My Sweet Lord"/"He's So Fine" controversy!

George got ripped off on that one.

Yeah, his song came out 7 years LATER and he's the one that got ripped off.

No, I know what it was - the Chiffons had a time machine in 1963, the year BEFORE the Beatles were even officially formed. They saw these 4 kids in a club while on tour in England and went to 1970 to see what these guys were doing then. They heard George performing "My Sweet Lord", liked the tune, went back to 1963 and wrote new lyrics for it.

They're genuises!

Erm... no, the Beatles formed in 1960 as a five piece, The Silver Beetles, before making their name in Germany whilst doing the Hamburg club ciruit during 1961. After Stu Sutcliffe died in 1962 they continued as a four-piece then dropped Pete Best as drummer in favour of Ringo Starr.

1963 was when they made it, though...

 

[Ziz]

Yeah, yeah, point is "He's So Fine" came out in '63 and "My Sweet Lord" came out in '70, so who stole from who?

 

[barnaclelapse]

I don't think I've ever really noticed, but now I kind of have to go check it out. I would imagine composers working with the same styles in the same medium around the same era would bump into other quite a bit, but I suppose I could be wrong.

 

[Green Shirt]

Yeah, yeah, point is "He's So Fine" came out in '63 and "My Sweet Lord" came out in '70, so who stole from who?

Just making a joke, no need to get your butt cheeks in an uproar. Chiffons are relatives of yours, or something?

 

[ClayinCA]

Who wants to fight about "I Want a New Drug"/"Ghostbusters"...?

Anyone...?

 

[HGN2001]

I think it's more coincidence than anything else. Both 12 O'CLOCK HIGH and STAR TREK were shows around the theme of the grandeur of flying machines.

There are some clips up on youtube that have examples of this music by Dominic Frontiere. Here's one with a bit of a warble at the start, but you get the idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6t9odvJ9fU

Harry

 

[Sir Rhosis]

I have to say, to my untrained ear, knowing nothing of how music is composed (I learned a new word -- "intervallic" -- thanks, M'Sharak), that the Trek fanfare sounded far far closer to the music in that clip than I expected. When I clicked the link, I was expecting something that only sounded remotely similar. Had I heard the 12 O'Clock High music not having read this thread the first thing I would have thought was "Sounds like the Trek opening music."

Sir Rhosis